Defensive Carry banner

Hollowpoints vs FMJ for 9mm

43K views 73 replies 51 participants last post by  James12 
#1 ·
Friend was giving me a hard time about me carrying FMJ instead of Hollow Points...I explained to him that 9mm was a small/fast/light round and thus a hollow point wouldn't really do much good anyways because it's always going to over-penetrate regardless and the expansion is going to be minimal. I was under the impression the only calibers that should be carried with hollow points are big/slow/heavy rounds like .45 ACP, .357 mag, and .44 mag. Any caliber junkies here care to elaborate? Thanks.
 
#2 ·
My 2 cents the only round I carry in fmj in is 32acp and below maybe 380 . If I was packing 9 maybe 380 and above I would carry HP perosnal. There is a reason why some in the MIl hate the m9 and that is the fmj just suckes for stopping power ( blows right though) . You want HP etc as they slow down when they hit someone and energy dump . FMJ is more you get lucky and you hit something HP well that is a hello there why dont you stop hitting me round.... And a modern 9mm JHP will expan just find. So unless you are in the MIL/NJ/San Fran I would carry HP

Just go to youtube plenty of vid showing the diference ...


But what do I know :embarassed:
 
#18 · (Edited)
Small low powered calibers are less likely to penetrate deep enough for personal defense, so I would recommend FMJ. IMO 9mm is known for penetration, so I believe that you would be much better off using hollow points for concealed carry. Actually some ballistics tests show that a 147 grain JHP 9mm will penetrate deeper than a 125 grain .357 sig.
 
#47 ·
^This^^^^^^^^

There are MANY reliable hollow points on the market today that have great terminal effect on human tissue.

Unless one lives in NJ, or is enlisted in the military, there is no good reason to use FMJ for personal defense, UNLESS it is all one has access to.



9mm
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)

This list is a few years old, with Hornady Critical Defense (IMHO) added to the list, as well as a few others that come to mind.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
 
#5 ·
I don't even know where to start, but you're wrong. 9mm FMJ will over penetrate more than say 45ACP. Some of the only calibers that should be FMJ for concealed carry would be rounds like 380 ACP, 25 ACP etc that are small and underpowered. FMJ 9mm is more likely to punch clean through a body and create a nice clean hole. You want a JHP to expand and rip through your target and hopefully not exit them, leave all of that energy in the target.

Some of the true caliber aficionados will chime in to back me up but american23 really needs to change their 9mm carry round and study up more on basic ballistics. No insult intended, we all come here to learn.
 
#6 ·
I was under the impression the only calibers that should be carried with hollow points are big/slow/heavy rounds like .45 ACP, .357 mag, and .44 mag. Any caliber junkies here care to elaborate? Thanks.
False assumption.

Bullet technology has really advanced in the last decade and continues to do so.

There are 9mm's that expand wonderfully. While several decades ago it was true that the 9mm wasn't known as a fight stopper, that reputation was built mostly by war use of FMJ's.
Due to technology the performance gap between the big slow bullets and the light fast bullets is getting smaller and smaller.

Today there is no reason to use anything but HP in a 9mm. They do what they are supposed to do and the limited penetration of a HP is better than the unlimited penetration of an FMJ in a defensive shooting situation.
That's another reason that very few if any Cops carry FMJ in their handguns, most, if not all choosing to use Hollow-points.
 
#7 ·
Friend was giving me a hard time about me carrying FMJ instead of Hollow Points...
Rightfully so.

I explained to him that 9mm was a small/fast/light round and thus a hollow point wouldn't really do much good anyways because it's always going to over-penetrate regardless and the expansion is going to be minimal.
It is because it is a small relatively fast bullet that it needs a HP. Some 9mm loads such as 9BPLE a 115 grain +P+ expand violently.

I was under the impression the only calibers that should be carried with hollow points are big/slow/heavy rounds like .45 ACP, .357 mag, and .44 mag.
In most loadings the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum are faster than most 9mm loads fired from a 4" or longer barrel. A 45 ACP still benefits from expansion.
 
#61 ·
It looks like the Gold Dot did more damage & sooner then the FMJ did.

The Gold Dot is kind`ah like a speeding vehicle hitting a brick wall while it does break a big hole in the wall it does not go all the way through it and it folds up like an accordion; killing everyone inside.

Where as the FMJ vehicle breaks a smaller hole in the wall and goes all the way through it, it just sustains a dented bumper, crinkled fender and cracked windshield; where as the occupants only sustain cuts & bruises.

Also it looks like the Gold Dot did fully penetrate the gelatin block but just as it exited it was "some how" drawn back into the block. Ain't the Laws of Physics wonderful!

Where as the FMJ fully penetrated, exited, and just kept on going and it appears too be tumbling as it fully-exits the gelatin block. So its tumbling could attribute it to causing a wider wound channel? Which if it was fired into a body that tumbling occurrence could effect its path and giving the reverence of viscosity of different parts of a body or if it deflects off a bone, it may or may not exit.

The FMJ does appear to veer upwards too in the video, maybe caused by the tumbling inertia's energy force?

So if you do use FMJ’s better beware of what’s directly around & behind your intended target because if it goes in odds are it will exit and could hit something behind it or next too it depending on where it desires to exit from….. if that makes sense?
 
#10 ·
I wouldn't carry fmj unless I had no hollowpoints. I'm quoting an older post of my own below, regarding overpenetration. It's worth the expense of JHP to limit the effect, and 9mm fmj is a poor stopper as well.

Regarding the performance of modern JHP, do some web searches and watch some YouTube videos of gel tests. As for velocities, a faster, lighter bullet is more likely to expand than a slower, heavier bullet of the same shape. It generates higher pressure at entry, which is what expands the point.


NEW YORK POLICE WILL START USING DEADLIER BULLETS - NYTimes.com


"According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full-metal-jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects.

In that same period, officers in the Transit Bureau, who already used the hollow points, struck six bystanders. Four of them were hit directly, one was hit by a bullet that ricocheted and another was hit by a bullet that passed through an object.

In that same period, 44 police officers were struck by police gunfire using the old ammunition: 21 were hit directly, 2 were struck by bullets that ricocheted and 17 were struck by bullets that passed though other people. Of the four officers struck by hollow-point bullets, three were hit directly and one was hit by a bullet that passed through another person."

So, over those two years, 37% of those people unintentionally shot by the NYPD with FMJ rounds were hit after the bullet had already passed through another person. Of those unintentionally shot with HP, 10%. These aren't large enough samples to be definitive, but it certainly indicates that overpenetration is a legitimate concern.
 
#12 ·
I'm not going to repeat any of the comments above other than to agree. I'd never carry FMJ unless I was required to. The modern JHP's work. Plus, worst case scenario with a JHP is that it might not open up. With a FMJ it's a certainty that it won't.

If you do decide to carry FMJ, find a defensive round. Target FMJ isn't manufactured to the same specifications as defensive rounds. Inconsistent powder, less quality control, jacket separation etc.
 
#13 ·
Hot summer day BG in t shirt
200gr 9mm soft hollow point
Light jack 158 gr
winter jacket 124 gr
Just hit your target this stuff is so much bull next if you don't use +p the 9mm won't work.
The barrel length alone can make a big difference ,distance where you hit target.
There is no end to this need for special rounds 9mm ball has been killing a long time.
Military does not dislike the 9mm because of ball they don't like it because it is not a 45.
And don't dare use 9mm ball for training , you will never hit your target with you carry load.
Full size 9mm go with a 124-147 jacket or semi jacket hollow point
Compact drop down to the 124
subs 115 to 124.
If ball is what you got center mass and fire.
 
#14 ·
To the op...
Do yourself a favor. Go find some 124 gr Federal hydra shock and be done with it. It has been around a long time, but has put many a bad guy in the ground. It is reliable, packs a whollop and is reasonably cheap compared to others. You will get as many opinions about the "best" ammo and their are seconds in a day. A modern bullet from a reliable manufacturer is more than enough to defend yourself properly. There is no magic bullet. I personally use several different brands depending on what is available. In order of preference they are: winchester ranger, federal hydra-shock, winchester PDX-1. I prefer the heaviest bullet I can find, but 124 gr is common just about anywhere. whatever you get, be sure to shoot at least a whole box of it to ensure that it is reliable in your gun. Others will say hundreds of rounds, but at 25-30 bucks for twenty, I am ok with a box .
 
#19 ·
Roll the clock back a few years look back in time the 9mm was the coming king.
Every police force was going to it was all the rage. Then it was not up to the job not mean enough for some.
First the 10mm was going to wipe it from history then the 40 was going to replace every 9mm in the world.
Then of course you weren't a real man unless you carried a .45.
To keep the market going we have to keep reinventing the hype.
The special Zombie killer black magic followed by version two of it.
The ninja the black this or that what ever they dreamed up while burning one in the marketing department.
They have been doing this forever you know what not much has changed.
Hand guns still kill people ,some times people get shot and walk away.
There will always be the story about the guy that got shot and kept coming.
There will always be the story about the little stray bullet that killed some one 3 blocks away.
Forget all that learn to hit center mass and hit it again
Weather it is a 9mm a 380,38 or 45 no madder what fancy round you buy for it.
 
#21 ·
There's certainly truth to this. Still, it makes sense to use expanding ammunition if you can. It's likely to produce faster incapacitation, and more importantly, it's likely to exit the BG with far less velocity and therefore be far less likely to seriously injure an innocent person.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gatorbait51
#22 ·
+1 to reasons for HP's above. Additionally, HP's are less likely to ricochet - or at least not as bad as FMJ. Elastic tissue like arteries, etc are more likely to deflect around an FMJ instead of being cut by an expanded metal jacket.

We shot a 4" foam target backer with a 50 BMG and pondered how destroyed the backer would be. What really happened was it looked like an icepick went through it. I'm not contesting what it does to hard targets, but I'll stick with HP in my pistols.
 
#23 ·
Wrong on all counts.

9mm FMJ is a worse overpenetrator than even many higher caliber FMJ's, so is a poor choice. And quality 9mm JHP defense ammo penetrates the proper amounts with good expansion just as consistently as others. In fact, with good defense ammo the difference between 9mm JHP terminal ballistics is hard to even tell apart from .40 and .45. 9mm is actually one of the worst calibers to use FMJ with, and sees massive improvement from using quality defense ammo. And you've got it backwards with the speed. More speed means more mushrooming (or possibly even fragmenting). There are even some .45 defense loads that only work as +P because otherwise the big and slow bullet won't mushroom.
 
#26 ·
While I normally carry hollow point ammo If FMJ is what I have then that is what I got and carry. If SHTF tonight fmj would be what id be shooting in short time if I was having to expend much ammo fighting off the hordes of starving looting loonies. Lot more of it stocked than jhp.
 
#28 ·
FMJ ammo is a very poor choice of defensive ammo for any handgun, especially a 9mm. The only time I'd ever use it is if I wasn't allowed to carry expanding ammo or couldn't find any. I guess maybe under some limited circumstances I might have some FMJs on me (possibly as a woods gun, or one mag of FMJ in case I needed to shoot through barriers like doors). If you must carry ball ammo it seems that flat nosed ball is the way to go; the flat point will crush/smash tissue vs round nosed ball which slips through tissue without doing as much damage.

But GET YOURSELF SOME HP AMMO!
 
#29 ·
So now that he ask and the his question answer I guess that he now know that his friend is full of it and don't know so let your friend carry what he want but you have heard it here.
 
#30 ·
Friend was giving me a hard time about me carrying FMJ instead of Hollow Points...I explained to him that 9mm was a small/fast/light round and thus a hollow point wouldn't really do much good anyways because it's always going to over-penetrate regardless and the expansion is going to be minimal.
I will keep banging this drum to educate. "Overpenetration" is not applicable to defensive pistol ammunition. Penetration is desirable, preferably through and through the intended target. Expansion is also desirable, after sufficient penetration to reach vital organs. 9mm is capable of both.

I was under the impression the only calibers that should be carried with hollow points are big/slow/heavy rounds like .45 ACP, .357 mag, and .44 mag.
The diameter of .357 is nearly identical to 9mm (.355"), and is faster. 124gr. 9mm- 1,100 fps (1,200+P); 125gr. .357- 1,600 fps. Not a big/slow round.

200gr 9mm soft hollow point
A 200gr .355? You must be rollling your own. I've only seen up to 158gr, but I'm not into casting.

The barrel length alone can make a big difference ,distance where you hit target.
+1!

Military does not dislike the 9mm because of ball they don't like it because it is not a 45.
The military uses FMJ because it has to.

And don't dare use 9mm ball for training , you will never hit your target with you carry load.
Sarcasm...I hope?

Some LEO I know load their gun with both. Everyother bullet is a fmj for shooting through stuff, and the hp for stopping agression.
This strategy is outdated, if ever really effective. Modern bonded JHP will perform as well through barriers as JHP.
 
#37 ·
I will keep banging this drum to educate. "Overpenetration" is not applicable to defensive pistol ammunition. Penetration is desirable, preferably through and through the intended target. Expansion is also desirable, after sufficient penetration to reach vital organs. 9mm is capable of both.
See my earlier post (10). At least those 22 bystanders and police would probably disagree that overpenetration doesn't apply, and that's only two years in one city. 24" penetration is excessive, and IMHO is the best reason to use JHP. You can't know what's behind the BG in a defensive situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flintlock62
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top