when considering defense ammo..

when considering defense ammo..

This is a discussion on when considering defense ammo.. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; would one be more concerned about muzzle velocity or muzzle energy? what is it that creates stopping power in defense rounds..cal.,velocity, energy...or is it a ...

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Thread: when considering defense ammo..

  1. #1
    Member Array berettaguy's Avatar
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    when considering defense ammo..

    would one be more concerned about muzzle velocity or muzzle energy?
    what is it that creates stopping power in defense rounds..cal.,velocity, energy...or is it a conbination of all three?

    some stuff i'm looking at has est velocity of 1950 and est muzzle energy of 524.
    it's +P,so it shouldn't be to abusive on my 92D(i hope)

    it's this stuff
    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=55751

    only bad thing so far is that it's $1.60 a round...
    S&W-SW40VE
    molon labe
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" --Sigmund Freud


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
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    For me, it's more than just what a round looks like on paper...it's almost impossible to determine how good a round will be by looking at numbers. How does it function in your gun? how does it feel when you shoot it? is it "snappier" or "easier" re: recoil? How fast are you able to put follow up shots downrange? How good is the bullet design/expansion/etc/etc/etc?

    Personally, at 1.50 a round I'd steer clear and rather go with Gold Dot, HST, or Ranger T. Simply, you can shoot more of this defensive ammo for the money...and I would rather be a better shot with a so-so ammunition* than be a so-so shot with good ammunition.

    *(not that those listed above are "so-so" by any means)

  3. #3
    Member Array chiefs-special-guy's Avatar
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    I have to agree. Get some quality remington or winchester or federal or other major brand self defense ammo. check it out thoroughly in your pistol for function and impact. then just use that. i made my choice based on what our local sheriff's department uses- the sheriff is a friend and very pro second amendment. He thinks that one should stick always to known, standard ammo, which he believes, through their testing, is absolutely first rate. i use win silvertip in any gun i carry, but the others are also excellent.
    just my opinion, of course- others here know much more than i do.
    God Bless
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettaguy View Post
    would one be more concerned about muzzle velocity or muzzle energy?
    Yes. And sectional density, and the specific bullet's probability of expanding, the materials used, etc. The dynamics of a "hit" are complex enough to allow this running debate to keep going. There's no telling. Pick what you're comfortable with, for the reasons that mean most to you ... and be happy that it's more than a rock you're holding in your hand. That's about all you can expect.

    Here's how I figure things: click here.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  5. #5
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettaguy
    what is it that creates stopping power in defense rounds..cal.,velocity, energy...or is it a conbination of all three?
    Nobody knows. Really. That's the bottom line. Despite what some people might tell you, and what some people would like to believe, there is no definitive answer, and there is no simple formula that directly translates into stopping power. All these things are worth consideration, but none of them gives the whole answer.

    The other thing that you MUST take into consideration is how a particular round fires in your particular gun. If your gun doesn't reliably feed a particular round each and every time then it doesn't matter the least little bit how much stopping power that round might have. The weakest cartridge with the most feeble bullet--but that goes BANG! every single time--is a far, far better choice than the most super-duper wonder-round that jams every other shot.

  6. #6
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    Relibility in my pistols are the #1 consideration. Find what works in you gun and stick with it.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Ain't no "magic" bullet. Ain't even a "best" bullet, really.

    Use what functions 100% in YOUR gun, and what YOU can blow the X-ring out with.

    I'd start with any of the JHP's by the top manufacturers: Winchester, Remington, Federal, Speer, Cor-Bon.

    Buying (well, at least shooting) all that ammo to deterimne which one is "best" can really be a lot of fun...the kind of fun that leads you test more and more....and then buy more guns and repeat as needed....

  8. #8
    Member Array berettaguy's Avatar
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    thanks for all the replys..
    i'll do some more shopping around and give some different stuff a try.
    S&W-SW40VE
    molon labe
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" --Sigmund Freud

  9. #9
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    I'm Not a Prison Guard...

    Or a SWAT team member...just an old guy who shops, gets gas, and is ocassionally in a parking lot. I stick close to home and remain armed most of the time...seldom in the shower!

    I'm not sure if any particular ammo makes a difference at 5 yds or less...but rather...does it work well in THAT EDC gun...and can you present it quickly (almost without thinking?).

    OMO

    ret
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  10. #10
    Member Array deadmarsh's Avatar
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    The bullet and it's design defines the caliber performance, not the other way around. Let's take a look at the 'state - of - art' bullet, the Cor-Bon all copper Barnes DPX:

    1) All DPX calibers are designed to penetrate 10-14" through various barrier from plain geletin, demin, plywood, and steel plating. They all do that quite well...

    2) The velocities and bullet weight are part of the equation to meet those penetration criteria (9mm = 115gr, 40 S&W = 140gr, 45ACP = 185gr, 10mm = 155gr). All use low flash powders, and since these are not jacketed bullets, they are lighter and longer for performance...

    3) Velocity/Muzzle energies vary due to bullet weight and velocity (9mm = 1275/415, 40 S&W = 1200/448, 45ACP = 1075/475, 10mm = 1200/496). All this is designed around penetration and expansion.

    4) Expansion through all media have been designed from 1.75-2.00 times diameter and they have proved out during testing...

    So, as you can gather, all the major calibers can get the job done -- you just have to decide which works best for you when you consider final expansion diameters and initial muzzle energy (my preferences are the 10mm and the 45ACP). And since the performance is done without maxing the loads, recoil in all calibers is mild...

    Sure, you can increase velocities in all these rounds with jacketed bullets, but will that additional recoil be a plus if penetration is shallower or deeper?

    Cor-Bon's new DPX is my choice, in all calibers, for the reasons I state above. Federal's newer HST jacketed bullet would be my second choice, and the newer bonded bullets would follow. Remember, with DPX, we lessen one concern with defensive pistol ammunition, the core separating from the jacket and then poor performance...

    You be the judge about the caliber you want to carry. The DPX will give you the performance in all. Bullet design, to me, is the most important factor for defensive ammunition...


    Dead
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    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Deadmarsh,

    Outstanding post!!!

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    New Member Array ccloud43's Avatar
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    Handgun wounding

    Here is something i found on a site which is about handgun wounding and was written by the FBI. It was written in 1989 but i feel it still contains some useful information.


    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf
    Save America. Teach a liberal to read.

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    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    I load the hottest 9mm in my pistols I can find. But they have to meet some testing criteria first. Reliability accuracy and I can handle it well. In my cz-75 its federal hst 124+p and my xdsc its remington 124 +p golden sabres. Shoot well and stay safe.

    Sixgun

  14. #14
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    Muzzle energy only counts if the round stops in the target other wise only a portion is emparted on the target making it a non-issue.
    Muzzle velocity is a non-isue because the qaulity manufatures choose a bullet that should expand at those velocities.
    Penatration test are useless because ballistic gellatin simulates muscle tissue so unless you planing to shot a pro speed skate in the leg the penatration test tell you nothing usefull.
    The average human torso is about 9" +or- from front to back and 1/2 of that is open air space (lungs) so you only need 4 to 5" of penatration to damage the heart or lungs.
    Most encounters will be at 5' or less it doesn't matter what you shoot it will work with the proper placement.
    Choose something you can shoot well and something that feeds well in your firearm, because if it fails to feed or you can't hit anything what good is the +p+ round going to due you in a tree 100 yards behind your intended target.

  15. #15
    Member Array Kaligula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berettaguy View Post
    would one be more concerned about muzzle velocity or muzzle energy?
    what is it that creates stopping power in defense rounds..cal.,velocity, energy...or is it a conbination of all three?

    some stuff i'm looking at has est velocity of 1950 and est muzzle energy of 524.
    it's +P,so it shouldn't be to abusive on my 92D(i hope)

    it's this stuff
    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=55751

    only bad thing so far is that it's $1.60 a round...
    A lot of training would help you survive.A lot. Choose ammo the strongest you can control,and practise a lot.I do belive you would be very well protected with 127grs SXT. From my perspective,it is No.1 in 9mm.

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