Extreme Shock Ammunition

This is a discussion on Extreme Shock Ammunition within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; QK, I too share your sentiment. I have learned quite a bit already from this forum and I am sure that will only go up ...

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Thread: Extreme Shock Ammunition

  1. #31
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    QK, I too share your sentiment. I have learned quite a bit already from this forum and I am sure that will only go up with each and every new forum member. I have already been offered an invite back to the SHOT Show for next year. That I am definitely going to take up.

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  3. #32
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercorvette
    One shot through the skin of an aircraft will not cause any noticable decompression. It would most likley take a couple hundred rounds to do it. That whole decompression thing is a Hollywood myth.
    Yeah, I heard that, too. In the article I read (I forgot where) it said that the only real way that shooting a few rounds would possibly cause a problem would be if you just happened to cut a hydraulic line or electrical wiring, but even that was not likely.
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  5. #34
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    Well, obviously, I have never used the ammunition either but I will add a couple of observations. Their claims do seem a little over the top, but they are tasked at breaking into market where most people have already made up their mind what they are going to trust in the weapon. And trust is not something they are going to earn until some history of the round exists or someone better than me runs a real test on it that says "yey" or "nay" to their claims. While I am skeptical of things like this as well, like QKShooter, I won't rule them out. If Winchester or Federal or Remington would have made the exact same claim, for the exact same ammunition, made out of the same "ny trillium", with the exact same name we would all be willing to try it (if it was affordable). Right now, the price is a little rich for my blood to shoot too much of it but I would not hesitate to at least try it.

    I have no clue what "ny trillium" really is, but if you don't trust the integrity of modern plastics/composites, all of you that love a plastic frame may want to start looking for a different gun. That being said, there is a plastic nose on their "Air Freedom Rounds" that sorta looks like a kid's toy

    Bet my life on it at this point? Hell no! But if their claims prove to be true, I might. I say "might" because I have the same concerns voiced above about a lawyer in court raking me over the coals over a particular round's physical characteristics or name. Our CCW instructor recommended carrying the same thing that the local police carry on duty. In Mesa, AZ that's Golden Sabers....
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  6. #35
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    I carry RBCD ammo www.rbcd.net same concept but better results and approval

  7. #36
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    The Courtroom Argument For Frangible Ammo

    Cuts both ways.
    On the one hand you have the possible "extra severe" wound channel and bodily damage to the BG ~ but that is very much counterbalanced by the lack of ricochet & penetration through walls, etc. in order to decrease the likelihood of possible injury to innocent and non~involved bystanders.
    So...YOU have selected your particular ammo to better protect the general public rather than to cause more harm to the perp.
    As long as the manufacturer of the frangible ammo CAREFULLY selects the correct name for their product you should be OK in court.
    I do not think you want to carry any defensive ammo called "Grim Reaper II" or BlackDeath or SkullBuster...for the very same reason that you do not want to have Skull & Crossbones or Black Widow Spider grips on your self defensive carry pistol.
    Somebody sure will "grab that ball" & run away with it in court and it will NOT EVER be to your advantage.
    That is the main reason I go with Glaser SAFETY Slugs rather than Black Talon.
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  8. #37
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    Doc Roberts and David DiFabio, along with Shawn Dodson are generally acknowledged to be the top experts on ammunition performance. Doc and David have both tested RBCD ammo and found it to perform poorly. The owner of RBCD, Stan Bulmer, has been conducting a running battle with Doc on other forums for months. He claims his ammo has some sort of magical ability to perform differently in people than in standard tests. Doc is currently doing extensive tests of this ammo to settle this debate.
    Glasers have been shown to work well in some circumstances, but poorly in others. Consider that you may have to shoot through an arm which it won't penetrate.
    The bottom line is there is no magic bullet. Ammo like Ranger T, Golden Sabers and Gold Dots have a proven track record with LE and federal agencies.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    Cuts both ways.
    On the one hand you have the possible "extra severe" wound channel and bodily damage to the BG ~ but that is very much counterbalanced by the lack of ricochet & penetration through walls, etc. in order to decrease the likelihood of possible injury to innocent and non~involved bystanders.
    So...YOU have selected your particular ammo to better protect the general public rather than to cause more harm to the perp.
    As long as the manufacturer of the frangible ammo CAREFULLY selects the correct name for their product you should be OK in court.
    I do not think you want to carry any defensive ammo called "Grim Reaper II" or BlackDeath or SkullBuster...for the very same reason that you do not want to have Skull & Crossbones or Black Widow Spider grips on your self defensive carry pistol.
    Somebody sure will "grab that ball" & run away with it in court and it will NOT EVER be to your advantage.
    That is the main reason I go with Glaser SAFETY Slugs rather than Black Talon.
    My main concern is to stay alive long enough to get to court. I think Hydra-Shoks will do that better the Glaser. I don't care if Hydra-Shoks have a incorrect name. If they keep me alive I will deal with the name in court. I prefer to select ammo on the basis of how well it has preformed over time. I am not against new technology but I am going to stick to what has worked in the past. I just wait a few years to see how well this new stuff works before I make any changes.

  10. #39
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    Dr. Martin L. Fackler served as a combat surgeon in Vietman in 1968. A fellow of both the American College of Surgeons and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, he also is an author, expert witness and lecturer on wound ballistics and surgery, and former director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory at Presidio.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLM
    Dr. Martin L. Fackler served as a combat surgeon in Vietman in 1968. A fellow of both the American College of Surgeons and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, he also is an author, expert witness and lecturer on wound ballistics and surgery, and former director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory at Presidio.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs5.htm
    I was trying to find that link, thank you for finding it for me, I was aware of it and that is why I don’t use Mag safe or and other fancy frangible ammo. But I try to keep an open mind to new technology. I will keep an eye on any new stuff and read all the tests but I won’t use it till I am satisfied it has proven it self in the field for a few years.

  12. #41
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    Hydra-Shok - They Are Fine

    I carry an extra mag of Glaser these days.
    I used to always keep my "in chamber" round a Glaser Safety Slug but have since changed away from that.
    I understand both the limitations & the advantages of frangible.
    Force of habit - "extensively tested reliable feeding" & the fact that I've tested them myself (albeit long ago) has kept me sticking with Glaser over Hydra-Shok. Old habits die hard.
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  13. #42
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    [devil's advocate] QK, I am curious how you would explain to a grand jury why the first round in your mag is of a different variation or design with respect to the remainder of the bullets in the magazine??? [/devil's advocate]

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  14. #43
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    silvercorvette, you're welcome. Below is Doc Robert's recommendations.
    http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bi...;f=78;t=000581

  15. #44
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    FLM great link, thanks for sharing. That .45 cavity (temp) is wicked.

    ~A
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    The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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    The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
    Henry Ward Beecher

  16. #45
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    It's my understanding that frangibles have become more common in military training and in certain LEO scenarios - solely because of safety issues. Wouldn't the same reasoning hold for civilian self-defense applications?
    If you want to make God laugh - tell Him your plans. Yiddish proverb

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