The 12 gauge Terminator slug actually kicks some serious booty! (Video Inside)

This is a discussion on The 12 gauge Terminator slug actually kicks some serious booty! (Video Inside) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For the last few weeks I have been testing some of those mall ninja type shotgun loads you can purchase online. After three tests I've ...

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Thread: The 12 gauge Terminator slug actually kicks some serious booty! (Video Inside)

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    Member Array usmc9688's Avatar
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    Smile The 12 gauge Terminator slug actually kicks some serious booty! (Video Inside)

    For the last few weeks I have been testing some of those mall ninja type shotgun loads you can purchase online. After three tests I've finally found one that is quite devastating. What are your thoughts on this exotic ammunition? Were you surprised by the results? Would you ever consider carrying this type of load in your home defense shotgun?

    Video



    Background

    The 12 Gauge Terminator Slug features a small group of birdshot followed by a hollowed out lead slug. The packaging makes ridiculous claims like "this round's lethality almost can't be advertised" and claims it will create a softball sized permanent cavity.

    Results

    I was pleasantly surprised when the shell did exactly that. We tested it using the Remington 870 and fired the ammo from ten feet. All of our tests are conducted using a synthetic ballistic gelatin from clearballistics.com.

    The permanent cavitation left by the shell was actually impressive. The first four inches of the gelatin were basically destroyed by the round. The mix of shot and slug created a gaping permanent cavity roughly four inches wide. This diameter of cavitation lasted until the birdshot stopped penetrating at roughly the four inch mark. After this the slug continued out the back of the sixteen inch gelatin. It left a nasty cavity that ranged from a half inch to three quarters of an inch in diameter.

    The shell dumped a respectable amount of its kentic energy into the block as it created a temporary cavity of roughly nine inches. This can been seen in the slow motion footage.


    Conclusion

    The Terminator was quite surprising. I expected to see more over-advertised nonsense but it looks to be a viable defensive round. The ammo is quite expensive at $5 a shell, but this wouldn't pose an issue if used only for defense. If you do consider this ammunition please keep the description in mind. Legal ramifications can't be good for a round that claims to be extremely lethal.
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    $5 a round? I'll pass. 00 Buck has done well for decades
    Eric357, mano3, WHEC724 and 3 others like this.

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    Member Array usmc9688's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 old 0311 View Post
    $5 a round? I'll pass. 00 Buck has done well for decades

    That's part of the reason why I wanted to test the shells. At $5 a round I don't want people blowing money on something that barely outperforms, if at all, standard shotgun ammo.
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    Member Array agalindo's Avatar
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    Your confusing gel crack with permanent crush cavity. Gel is not as elastic as tissue.

    A slug is cheaper.

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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    still another gimmick IMO. Its great that it makes a big wound channel, but throw is some ribs, heavy cartilage, clothing etc, and you just took all of the penetration out of the birdshot, leaving the only actual performing part, the slug. A box of foster style slugs will do the exact same as this round did, at $1 a round..... I still dont see how this would be anymore effective than a traditional slug or quality buckshot, and it def doesnt justify $5 a round in any way. If I want expensive ammo I can shoot my Hornady SST slugs at the bad guy. At $13 per box of 5, its about as pricey as I want to get. Btw, I have taken 3 deer with the sst, and if you want terminal performance , thats where it is at, Each deer had an exit hole two fingers thick from expansion and only one ran a little ways, even though it was dead on its feet.
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    While the damage to the gel is relatively impressive (as I would suspect any round based on a 12 gauge slug would be), I would be hesitant to "highly recommend for personal defense" ANYTHING after such a limited test. A sample size of one is an anecdote - it is not evidence.
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    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Member Array usmc9688's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
    Your confusing gel crack with permanent crush cavity. Gel is not as elastic as tissue.

    A slug is cheaper.
    I don't understand what you're saying. Do you mind elaborating a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    still another gimmick IMO. Its great that it makes a big wound channel, but throw is some ribs, heavy cartilage, clothing etc, and you just took all of the penetration out of the birdshot, leaving the only actual performing part, the slug. A box of foster style slugs will do the exact same as this round did, at $1 a round..... I still dont see how this would be anymore effective than a traditional slug or quality buckshot, and it def doesnt justify $5 a round in any way. If I want expensive ammo I can shoot my Hornady SST slugs at the bad guy. At $13 per box of 5, its about as pricey as I want to get. Btw, I have taken 3 deer with the sst, and if you want terminal performance , thats where it is at, Each deer had an exit hole two fingers thick from expansion and only one ran a little ways, even though it was dead on its feet.
    I agree. If you don't mind spending $5 a round, which I absolutely wouldn't do, then this isn't a terrible round. I mention in the video that it's not much better than a standard slug or buckshot.

    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    While the damage to the gel is relatively impressive (as I would suspect any round based on a 12 gauge slug would be), I would be hesitant to "highly recommend for personal defense" ANYTHING after such a limited test. A sample size of one is an anecdote - it is not evidence.
    Usually when we post a test video we have actually done more than one. This ammo came with three rounds, so we were able to do a few tests with it. I completely agree that a large sample size is needed in order to validate recommending ammo.

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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc9688 View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying. Do you mind elaborating a bit?



    I agree. If you don't mind spending $5 a round, which I absolutely wouldn't do, then this isn't a terrible round. I mention in the video that it's not much better than a standard slug or buckshot.



    Usually when we post a test video we have actually done more than one. This ammo came with three rounds, so we were able to do a few tests with it. I completely agree that a large sample size is needed in order to validate recommending ammo.
    I have to give you props though. You are willing to spend hard earned greenbacks on this stuff and test, where i would never do it lol. If you do find something phenomenal though, be sure to let us know. Also, I do have a question. Why do you test at such a close range. I would think that with a shotgun you would want to test at a longer range, say 10 yds, as opposed to ten feet. If the BG gets within ten feet of me I have seriously screwed up, and a shotgun is not what i want in my hand.
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    Member Array agalindo's Avatar
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    Tissue unlike gel is very elastic. When a bullet passes through it will create a temporary stretch cavity, this temp cavity does not tear tissue. Gel unlike tissue is not as elastic so when a bullet passes through gel the temp cavity actually tears the gel leaving a larger wound cavity than the bullet would normally leave in tissue.

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    Senior Member Array SigIsTheAnswer's Avatar
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    Thank you for the review. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into your review.
    Sig Sauer P516, Sig Sauer P229 Scorpion, Diamondback DB-15, Beretta PX4 Storm compact, S&W Bodyguard .380, FN Five SeveN 5.7.

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    I appreciate your test. Anytime some one helps out the rest of us it is appreciated.

    Bill

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    Member Array usmc9688's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    I have to give you props though. You are willing to spend hard earned greenbacks on this stuff and test, where i would never do it lol. If you do find something phenomenal though, be sure to let us know. Also, I do have a question. Why do you test at such a close range. I would think that with a shotgun you would want to test at a longer range, say 10 yds, as opposed to ten feet. If the BG gets within ten feet of me I have seriously screwed up, and a shotgun is not what i want in my hand.
    Thanks. It can get expensive, but I have fun doing it. I test around ten feet just to keep a standard throughout all of my tests. We were testing this ammunition with home defense in mind which is another reason to test at such a short distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by agalindo View Post
    Tissue unlike gel is very elastic. When a bullet passes through it will create a temporary stretch cavity, this temp cavity does not tear tissue. Gel unlike tissue is not as elastic so when a bullet passes through gel the temp cavity actually tears the gel leaving a larger wound cavity than the bullet would normally leave in tissue.
    The synthetic gelatin is quite elastic. If you'd like to check some out without having to spend a lot of money clearballistics.com has a sample size for around $2. You can also tell from the slowed video in this post that the gel stretches quite a bit when struck with a round. This is because it is meant to mimic, without being spot on, human tissue.

    Permanent cavities can be created by objects literally pushing through gel, or from kinetic energy transfer. When a bullet passes through an object it destroys a portion of the gel. This leaves the permanent cavity also known as bullet path, wound, etc. If the bullet is traveling fast enough, it will stretch the gel so much during the kinetic energy transfer that the permanent cavity will be bigger. The FBI has stated that this factor is negligible with most handgun rounds because they do not travel fast enough. This fact is why permanent cavities of rifle rounds are often much larger than the diameter and length of the bullet.

    You bring up a great point. Ballistic gelatin and synthetic substitutes do not completely represent what would occur in human flesh. A common misconception is that ballistic gelatin is a perfect substitute for a human. The FBI began using the gelatin to get a testing standard to compare ammunition. By eliminating the variables such as bone, changing density, organ obstruction, etc, they could scientifically observe and compare bullet performance. The "wounds" found in gel tests may not look exactly the same in a human target, but for obvious reasons we cannot begin to compare the two test medias.
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    Member Array agalindo's Avatar
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    Not as elastic as tissue especially muscle. 10% calibrated gel does mimic tissue penetration very well but again it does not mimic tissue stretch damage. How much can you bend,pull, twist a piece of boneless meat, steak, roast. Can you do the same to gel without it tearing? Dead meat, steak roast is not as elastic as living tissue.

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    Member Array agalindo's Avatar
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    Not as elastic as tissue especially muscle. 10% calibrated gel does mimic tissue penetration very well but again it does not mimic tissue stretch damage. How much can you bend,pull, twist a piece of boneless meat, steak, roast. Can you do the same to gel without it tearing? Dead meat, steak roast is not as elastic as living tissue.

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    That's it, it's time to open the "tissue farms," and start growing huge racks of muscle tissue. Surely we have the technology! But I bet if you thought *gel* was expensive.... :)
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    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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