The best 9mm man stopper.

This is a discussion on The best 9mm man stopper. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I just had this discussion with a few guys and thought it would be nice to put this info up to help some other ...

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Thread: The best 9mm man stopper.

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    New Member Array .357SIG's Avatar
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    The best 9mm man stopper.

    So I just had this discussion with a few guys and thought it would be nice to put this info up to help some other guys. First of all I'd like to say all the info I will be giving you is from Massad Ayoob and a few of his books but mostly The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry and The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery. Each of these books has real world proven factual information about real world shootings. In each book there is a chapter that is divided by Caliber in all the defensive calibers from .32 all the way to 10mm with all the revolver loads as well. For each caliber he explains which load has proved to be the best man stopper. He uses real world statistics from the FBI and reports/info from police agency's all over the country. So for the 9mm, the 115gr bullet going at least 1300-1350 fps is the best and most proven man stopper in 9mm. The 124gr at 1200-1250 is in second place. The 147gr bullet has had horrible results in real world shootings. Many police agency's have filed complaints about how bad their 147gr bullets were doing so many many agency's switched from the 147gr bullet. And for anyone who wants to know the best round/caliber right now around the country thats proving to be a very very reliable man stopper and the agency's that carry it are just freaking loving it is the 125gr bullet going 1400fps in .357 Sig. It is proving to be a crazy man stopper and there are absolutely zero reports of any downsides like over penetration.
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    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    The books are new (2008, 2007). I wonder what time period the data is gathered from?

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    The books are new (2008, 2007). I wonder what time period the data is gathered from?
    IIRC the switch to .357 sig for some agencies is a very recent one. Mas has always advocated speed of projectile vs. heavier, slower bullets.
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    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Yeah, I ran a few 357 SIGs for some time. Several Glocks and one M&P. Got tired of searching and paying for ammo. That is the downside.

    But other than that, you're right. It is a honey. Accurate.

    Your 9mm 147 grain information, however, is quite dated. Gold Dots, Ranger T, or HST is all very good.
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    Member Array MacReady's Avatar
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    I've been following Mas Ayoob for years. I actually have the 6th edition of his "Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery" and have read numerous articles of his going back to the late 1990's. As far as I can tell, he seems to have it pretty well figured out. The more energy a projectile can deliver on target while also getting in deep enough to affect internal organs seems to be the real recipe. In 9mm, the 115 +p+ rounds, and the 124 +p stuff, has always seemed to get the job done (at least as much as a pistol caliber in it's class can). The 147 grain loads, though, not so much. Others can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to recall reading some years ago that the 147 grain 9mm was initially developed specifically for use in suppressed sub-machine guns (like the MP5) because they'd be sub-sonic (hence, no supersonic "crack" when firing). At some point thereafter, they decided to try this loading as a JHP for handguns and it was rather underwhelming. Seemed to develop a quick reputation for lack of expansion and over penetration. In recent years, though, I've read quite a bit about folks switching over to the 147 grain loads in 9mm and apparently feeling quite good about it. The reasoning seems to be that more "modern" bullet technology has breathed new life into this round but thus far I've yet to see much in terms of actual street results so who knows....

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    Member Array BritishAgent's Avatar
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    A bit outdated maybe?

    115g 9mm is generally seen as a target load, 124g is usually standard.

    147g gets a bad rep from decades ago when they were first introduced as sub-sonic ammunition because manufacturers didn't adapt the design to expand at a lower velocity. In modern ammo (Federal HST comes to mind), 147g outperforms the rest.


    At least that's what the Internet told me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritishAgent View Post
    A bit outdated maybe?

    115g 9mm is generally seen as a target load, 124g is usually standard.

    147g gets a bad rep from decades ago when they were first introduced as sub-sonic ammunition because manufacturers didn't adapt the design to expand at a lower velocity. In modern ammo (Federal HST comes to mind), 147g outperforms the rest.


    At least that's what the Internet told me.
    I'm not talking about videos of bullets going into gelatin. I'm talking about actual facts, proven real world statistics. Not stuff off the internet. I wasn't trying to start an argument. Just wanted to help some people out by sharing some real world facts about the 9mm round.
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    Member Array JDavisArk's Avatar
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    I Love the 357Sig. That's why I converted my G27. I have talked with one LEO that did not like it as a duty round/weapon. He told me that he would much rather have the 9mm and some extra rounds. Now I don't know what more to tell you other than this LEO's first hand account of deploying the 357Sig duty weapon, emptying the magazine, and being unimpressed with the overall results.
    Carry means carry. That means all of the time. If you don't, you're just kidding yourself and opening up options for someone to take you down.

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    Member Array Strmwatch's Avatar
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    The "best" is the one that reliably feeds and fires in your EDC.
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    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    From what I've read the 147gr HST has an impressive amounts of one-shot stops in its relatively short life.
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    Senior Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    I have chosen the 115 gr Buffalo/Barnes at 1400fps as my carry load. Second choice might be Buffalo Bores 124 gr @ 1350 fps. At almost $2 each--I don't shoot a lot of my carry ammo.

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    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecup View Post
    I have chosen the 115 gr Buffalo/Barnes at 1400fps as my carry load. Second choice might be Buffalo Bores 124 gr @ 1350 fps. At almost $2 each--I don't shoot a lot of my carry ammo.
    I have strongly considered trying some of the lead free stuff loaded with the Barnes X bullet. IIRC Asym and Black Hills both offer it, as does buffalo Bore. On paper is sounds great; very high velocity and nearly 100% weight retention. But I'm in the same spot you are. How much could I shoot the stuff at $2/round? I hate to load my CCW sidearm with a given loading until I've put 150 or so rounds through the gun with no problems (or 50-100 rounds to test if it's an HK). The 147gr HST isn't cheap but it's generally around $.55/round, so burning a few boxes is at least plausible.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Underwood Ammo has some impressive 9mm ammo. Most using the beloved and proven Gold Dot bullet. Expansion is amazing at the higher velocities, but penetration is less than some. But a 147gr 9mm running at 1150FPS sounds like a potent option. But then again, so does a 115gr 9mm traveling at 1420fps. Tnoutdoors9 has the tests on his channel. Note the way the block reacts to the faster 9mm loads (if you watch the videos you will see what I mean). Most 9mm loads don't even move the 50lb block he uses, the underwood stuff makes it dance. Unscientific yes, but it does show the energy created exceeds most factory stuff by a wide margin.
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    Before I answer with some facts over fiction could you explain man stopper? Shot he will eventually die. He was hit once in the arm and fell down and did not get up? I placed the proper shot to the central nervous system and he dropped in his tracks. Or I shot him the coroner said the one round would kill him yet he fought on for 33 seconds and killed me. So I was killed by a dead man.
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    Pretty good read about self defense ammo. Quite a few examples of 147gr ammo on the list.
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