Ammo Gurus. I need help.

Ammo Gurus. I need help.

This is a discussion on Ammo Gurus. I need help. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Quick question. .223 and 5.56 are similar but not the same. You can shoot .223 in 5.56 but not the other way around. Is it ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
Like Tree12Likes

Thread: Ammo Gurus. I need help.

  1. #1
    Member Array Lamented's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    20

    Ammo Gurus. I need help.

    Quick question.
    .223 and 5.56 are similar but not the same. You can shoot .223 in 5.56 but not the other way around.

    Is it the same concept with.308? Or is 7.62 x 51 the exact same thing as
    .308?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    AZ moutain lands
    Posts
    4,153
    Yeah I think so ... 308 is not the same as x51 ... But in many countries that cant have x51 they load 308 to x51 ....
    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
    "Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades"
    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."Chesty Puller

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    AZ moutain lands
    Posts
    4,153
    The .308 Winchester (pronounced: "three-oh-eight" or "three-aught-eight") is a rimless, bottlenecked, rifle cartridge and is the commercial cartridge from which the 7.62×51mm NATO round was derived. The .308 Winchester was introduced in 1952, two years prior to the NATO adoption of the 7.62×51mm NATO T65. Winchester (a subsidiary of Olin Corporation) branded the cartridge and introduced it to the commercial hunting market as the .308 Winchester. Winchester's Model 70 and Model 88 rifles were subsequently chambered for the new cartridge. Since then, the .308 Winchester has become the most popular short-action, big-game hunting cartridge worldwide.[1] It is also commonly used for civilian target shooting, military sniping, and police sharpshooting. The relatively short case makes the .308 Winchester especially well-adapted for short-action rifles. When loaded with a bullet that expands, tumbles, or fragments in tissue, this cartridge is capable of high terminal performance.[2][3][4]

    Although very similar to the military 7.62×51mm NATO specifications, the .308 cartridge is not identical, and there are special considerations that may apply when mixing these cartridges with 7.62×51mm NATO, and .308 Winchester chambered arms.[5] Their interchange is, however, considered safe by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI).[6]
    Pete63, Aceoky and 47Gabe like this.
    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
    "Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades"
    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."Chesty Puller

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    AZ moutain lands
    Posts
    4,153
    Although not identical, the 7.62×51mm NATO and the commercial .308 Winchester cartridges are similar enough that they can be loaded into rifles chambered for the other round, but the Winchester .308 cartridges are typically loaded to higher pressures than 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges for use in long-distance hunting of big-game animals. Even though the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) does not consider it unsafe to fire the commercial round in weapons chambered for the NATO round, there is significant discussion[3][4][5] about compatible chamber and muzzle pressures between the two cartridges based on powder loads and wall thicknesses on the military vs. commercial rounds. While the debate goes both ways, the ATF recommends checking the stamping on the barrel; if you're unsure, consult the maker of the firearm.[6][7]
    Pete63 likes this.
    “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” H.L. Mencken
    "Vous ne les laisserez pas passer, mes camarades"
    "We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."Chesty Puller

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,515
    So the answer is yes, no, maybe, sometimes, always...
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array GunnyBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Victoria, B.C.
    Posts
    4,018
    Occasionally.
    CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member
    Array whoppo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    1,287
    ... perhaps.
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    The Second Amendment *IS* Homeland Security
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------- Μολὼν λαβέ ----------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array denclaste's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    upper midwest
    Posts
    777
    And then you can get into the Palma spec 308 chambers. Certain reamers where cut specifically for the Radway Green ammo from the UK when host countries use to issue the ammo used in large match's. And the Hunter BR class 308 tight chambers, and.......

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,924
    I think people worry too much. This discussion is old and ancient and has caused much hand wringing on every gun forum there is.

    I have specifically shot military surplus, belted 7.62 ammo in my .308s. Many of them were surprisingly accurate. I've shot African,Swiss, Egyptian, British and even Austrailian, Yugo, Russian, and dang near every country that has produced military 7.62 in various rifles chambered for .308.
    I have shot .308s in my various AR-10's and HK91 will no issues whatsoever.

    I have shot very sort of military surplus ammo in my bolt .223's and vice versa with no ill effects.

    Fact of the matter is...
    brass is somewhat elastic and will fire form to the chamber that it is shot from.

    If the bolt will close on it ,it will be OK.

    You have to be smarter than the ammo. If your guns doesn't like it, then don't force the issue.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,188
    Or just pitch all that crazy NATO mumbo jumbo and get a 30.06.
    TomEgun, TomEgun, Bad Bob and 2 others like this.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Making ammo.
    Posts
    3,051
    Here are the facts:

    The only thing different between a 5.56 chamber and a .223 chamber is the leade (throat). The pressure of the ammunition is the same. Confusion happens because NATO and SAAMI testing is done with a different measuring instrument and at different locations. If you test both rounds in both chambers with both methods the pressure measurements will be the same. 5.56 is NOT higher pressure than .223. Because of the difference in throat length, you MAY have an issue with a .223 chamber if it is specifically cut with a short throat for use with light, short varmint bullets.

    7.62 is loaded to lower pressure than .308. Chambers and ammunition are dimensionally the same. Most rifles with 7.62 chambers are the M1A variants that can't have higher pressure ammo or the op rod will fail.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cadiz,Ky
    Posts
    1,262
    My old Savage lever action in .308 would not chamber military 7.62 X 51 ammo. I had to pull the bullets and run the brass thru a "small base" die and re-assemble them in order to get it to work. No problems at all with commercial brass.

  13. #13
    Member Array diggler1833's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    93
    Good rule of thumb: .223 in a 5.56, but not the other way around (Wylde chamber excluded). 7.62x51 in a .308, but not the other way around. It is mostly a pressure issue, but there are very slight leade differences.

  14. #14
    Member Array Lamented's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Here are the facts:

    The only thing different between a 5.56 chamber and a .223 chamber is the leade (throat). The pressure of the ammunition is the same. Confusion happens because NATO and SAAMI testing is done with a different measuring instrument and at different locations. If you test both rounds in both chambers with both methods the pressure measurements will be the same. 5.56 is NOT higher pressure than .223. Because of the difference in throat length, you MAY have an issue with a .223 chamber if it is specifically cut with a short throat for use with light, short varmint bullets.

    7.62 is loaded to lower pressure than .308. Chambers and ammunition are dimensionally the same. Most rifles with 7.62 chambers are the M1A variants that can't have higher pressure ammo or the op rod will fail.
    Could you expand on this? Now I seem to be even more confused about these 2 rounds.
    I have read the brass case on 5.56 is thicker and the primer is less sensitive. That being said Wouldn't that mean there's less internal volume in the cartridge which is why 5.56 has more chamber pressure?

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Making ammo.
    Posts
    3,051
    5.56 brass is not thicker. It is a falsehood.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors