i would ASSume more penetration ...
This is a discussion on Law Enforcement and 9mm within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In reference to Law Enforcement and 9mm loads it seems that the 147gr load is more popular than 115 or 124...why is this?...
In reference to Law Enforcement and 9mm loads it seems that the 147gr load is more popular than 115 or 124...why is this?
I thought 124 grain loads were more popular. My agency issued Federal 147 grain Hydrashok and then CCI 124 grain standard velocity Gold Dot back when we were issued 9mm SIGs.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
I think they do it because it is still cheaper than .40 ammo.
Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.
The Wabash City Police are still issued 147gr Hydrashok, old style, standard pressure. They are very happy with it. One shooting I know of took place when a drunk tried to run over an officer with his pickup. Another LEO, a friend of mine in fact, put one of these suckers through the rear of the cab and into the offender's head. There was little to no deflection from POA.
P.S. If I were picking out ammo, it would be 124gr +P in something well constructed that went at least 1200fps from a 4" barrel.
ISP is going back to 9mm because of problems they were having with the Glock 40s and they are using 147 Gold Dots reason being better pentration thru windshields.
ISP = Indiana or Illinois State Police?
Well dang, I shoulda' known this! Thanks. :)
I was told by a LEO from the local PD that it was due to FBI recommendations. He told me it was because the FBI published the results of their ammo tests post Miami gunfight, and made the now infamous results readily available to local PDs in their publications. This PD issues G17s, with 19 and 26 for plainclothes, with the 147gr Hydrashok as the issue load. Same load they have always issued since they got the Glocks. He told me they had never done any independent testing with this load, or any other for that matter, but had gone solely by the FBI's recommendation for a subsonic 9mm. Before that, the issue was a S&W 65 with Nyclads, and still approved for old-timers with 158gr LSWCHP. No recent shootings to comment on, though.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
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It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!
If everybody used the miami shootout to pick a round, wouldn't we all have .38 spcl 158 grain +p swchp in a smith wheel gun? That's the round that ended the fiasco isn't it?
IN SP had carried Beretta 96 but then elected to go 22. During their transition training they experienced a very high percentage of FTF/FTE problems. After dancing around with Glock for a while and threatening to go with another make Glock agreed to swap the 22 for 17s.
My agency also had problems with our 22s. Ours had been in service 4-5 yrs when the high rd count guns (20K+) started having FTF/FTE problems. Glock blamed the problems on every imaginable excuse you could think of. Finally they admitted the problem to be excessive frame flex. All our 22s were replaced with "improved" 22 which had longer locking blocks that are suppose to take out the excessive flexing. None of our 23s had the problem and Glock said they hadn't received complaints on the 23. But then again, Glock wasn't up front admitting the problems with the 22 either so take that with a grain of salt. Even so, none of our 23s were having the problems that we had with the 22.
Topekia KS also had some problems with their new 22s and so did a dept in Oregon which I forget the city now. There were a few other documented agencies too but I no longer have the list. Don't know how they resolved their problems with Glock. However, all of them had the 22 in common.
My Federal Agency uses the 124gr Hydra-Shok for duty load and the 124 gr mil-spec hardball for practice ammo. Admittedly, we're not the most "fashion forward" agency, but I believe there are some methods to our madness...
The main reasons we use 9mm is because of simple availability and commonality with the military. Our Agents serve all over the world, and work closely with the military (especially the Marine Security Guards at Embassies and Consulates), and having a common caliber is fairly important. As to why we use the 124 gr vice the 147 - I can only guess that we wanted our practice and duty ammo to be as identical in ballistic performance (excluding terminal ballistics, naturally) as possible.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.