Winchester Defend 9mm and 380 Auto Comparative tests

Winchester Defend 9mm and 380 Auto Comparative Tests

This is a discussion on Winchester Defend 9mm and 380 Auto Comparative Tests within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; New test went up this morning. Write up for the blog should follow soon. One of the two was loads was impressive....

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Thread: Winchester Defend 9mm and 380 Auto Comparative tests

  1. #1
    Member Array Ljutic's Avatar
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    Winchester Defend 9mm and 380 Auto Comparative tests

    New test went up this morning. Write up for the blog should follow soon. One of the two was loads was impressive.

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    I noticed the flash of light in the gel on the 9mm bone shot. There was a discussion here a couple of weeks ago about that. I can't remember the technical term for it, though.

    Nice work.
    I know little on the subject so I'll speak at length.

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    Member Array ShootingTheBull's Avatar
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    Thanks for doing this! Pretty much exactly the results that I would have predicted. That Winchester Defend 9mm is a great round for pretty much any 9mm pistol size, and really works well in a short barrel. And I expected the Defend .380 to perform like the PDX1, and it looks like it did exactly that -- excessive expansion and gross underpenetration.

    I keep getting asked all the time when I'll do a test of the .380 Winchester Defend; now I can point folks over to your test to show them why I'm not all that interested in doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick63 View Post
    I noticed the flash of light in the gel on the 9mm bone shot. There was a discussion here a couple of weeks ago about that. I can't remember the technical term for it, though.

    Nice work.
    Thanks.

    This has been a big point of discussion since I first "discovered" the phenomenon back in 2012. See horrid video below from the "good old days". Most want to put the blame on dieseling for the flashes. What that means is the gel is vaporized (it's an oil based product) as the bullet passes down the block. As the temporary stretch cavity collapses, it creates pressure and causes the vaporized gel to ignite as fuel does in a diesel engine. I'm not sold on that theory. I believe the ignitions are caused by piezo electric ignition of the vaporized gel. What most folks don't know is that the gel is a magnet for static electricity. As the gel stretches (rips) the static electricity creates a spark that ignites the vaporized gel. I believe piezo ignition is correct because I watched a 100,000 frames per second high speed video and could see the spark jump just before the flashball ignited.

    Regardless, the bullet is long gone down the block by the time the explosion happens. It has no impact on the recovered round, but does taint the artifacts left in the wound channel.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ShootingTheBull View Post
    Thanks for doing this! Pretty much exactly the results that I would have predicted. That Winchester Defend 9mm is a great round for pretty much any 9mm pistol size, and really works well in a short barrel. And I expected the Defend .380 to perform like the PDX1, and it looks like it did exactly that -- excessive expansion and gross underpenetration.

    I keep getting asked all the time when I'll do a test of the .380 Winchester Defend; now I can point folks over to your test to show them why I'm not all that interested in doing it.
    Happy to help BG. Winchester needs to hire a bullet engineer just to work on their 380 projectiles. All their JHPs, from Silvertip to PDX, expand far too much and penetrate too little. I think their 95 grain FMJ Flat Point may be the best 380 load they offer for self defense. That's pretty sad.
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    I've heard it called "sonoluminesence".

    Here's a you tube:
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    I know little on the subject so I'll speak at length.

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    Senior Member Array michael t's Avatar
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    I am not to worried about the 380 penetration . Most civilian SD shootings at close range and face to face. So the 9 inches will reach good parts .Also Iam not going to shoot just 1 time no matter the caliber.
    come visit me at my home www.bersachat.com or http://www.americanclassic1911forum.com
    1990, 1992 Colt Mustang 1941 Colt USGI 1951 Colt Commander 9MM
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hick63 View Post
    I've heard it called "sonoluminesence".
    Which led to one of the more unique poll questions:

    "Poll: Can sonoluminescence cause tension pneumothorax?"

    Ever see an "explosion" while watching a gel test? This is why that happens.
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    FWIW Based on your work and ShootingtheBull's, I've ditched the GDs and carry 147g Ranger/PDx1/Defender in my Shield.

    Thanks again.
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    I know little on the subject so I'll speak at length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hick63 View Post
    FWIW Based on your work and ShootingtheBull's, I've ditched the GDs and carry 147g Ranger/PDx1/Defender in my Shield.

    Thanks again.
    IMHO, the best one to buy is the one that performs well (doesn't have to be the best). Most important is using something you can source easily and afford to buy in quantities sufficient to practice with your carry ammo. Maybe not all the time, but frequently. Practice builds familiarity, and verifies the ammo functions 100% of the time in your specific firearm. I cringe when people tell me they buy one box of ammo for carry, and many boxes of FMJ for practice.

    Nice to hear that you get some value from the testing. Thanks.
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    Member Array Coconut's Avatar
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    Nicely done as usual. I'm steering away from Winchester Defend 380 because it's giving me FTF issues with my Bodyguard 380, learning that it only does 9" simply confirms that it's not for me.
    Ars longa vita brevis

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    Can you guys test the Inceptor ARX rounds next. I am wondering if they are as effective as the Leigh Defense XP rounds. Specifically if there is any permanent cutting beyond the bullet track.

    While the Leigh look like a Phillips screwdriver head, the ARX look like a drill bit.


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    VIP Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I have some Winchester self defense I bought back sometime ago.It's getting close to rotate for new carry ammunition.I'll stick with what work in 147 grain.

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    Senior Member Array michael t's Avatar
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    Leigh Defense XP rounds. Specifically if there is any permanent cutting beyond the bullet track.

    What I have saw so far is this bullet is a over penetrating joke in 9mm. That does little more damage than ball .

    Stay away from the latest and greatest giant killer bullet . They cost 2 much and never come close to all their hype . Just my 02.

    When I see this type claims I walk. Max energy transfer to target using Hydrodynamic Ram effect

    Ok I'll stick with proven HP rounds.
    come visit me at my home www.bersachat.com or http://www.americanclassic1911forum.com
    1990, 1992 Colt Mustang 1941 Colt USGI 1951 Colt Commander 9MM
    1972 Colt Combat Commander 1994,1997 Colt Officer ACPs 2001 Colt LTW Commander 2005 Colt Defender 2007 Dan Wesson
    early Belleview Detonics

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael t View Post
    Leigh Defense XP rounds. Specifically if there is any permanent cutting beyond the bullet track.

    What I have saw so far is this bullet is a over penetrating joke in 9mm. That does little more damage than an ball .

    Stay away from the latest and greatest giant killer bullet . They cost 2 much and never come close to all their hype . Just my 02.
    The beautiful thing about this country is that we can choose what we feel works best for us.

    The fact that the English language eludes you leads me to question your advise.
    I know little on the subject so I'll speak at length.

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