I found a short barrel winner!

I found a short barrel winner!

This is a discussion on I found a short barrel winner! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Like so many others out there, when the weather gets hot or I just need to conceal a pistol much easier, I carry a shorter ...

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Thread: I found a short barrel winner!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array AdamSean's Avatar
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    I found a short barrel winner!

    Like so many others out there, when the weather gets hot or I just need to conceal a pistol much easier, I carry a shorter barrel, pocket gun. And when we go shorter, we lose enough velocity to affect bullet performance. I think I have tried using maybe 5 different types of ammunition. I love the Hornady Critical Duty in my full sized guns, but some gel tests are revealing such over penetration from a short barrel that it becomes dangerous by means of collateral damage. I have been following the video reviews by Shooting The Bull's Ammo Quest for the perfect 9mm for shorter barrels. And I think I just found my new short barrel carry round.

    I have been looking at the The fairly new Winchester Train and Defend line for a little while now. And I just realized that these guys tested them out. And wow, is all I can say. I will let the video speak for itself.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Norm66's Avatar
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    I switched my own EDC over to Defend and for the same reason. I really respect StB's thoroughness and willingness to change his own carry ammo when he finds one that performs better.

    My wife is still using Critical Defense because she doesn't like the little extra recoil the 147 grain bullet brings.

  3. #3
    Member Array glocknjeep's Avatar
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    Ok, penetration is good to make it a viable round but expansion is not great. I like hst or Lehigh defense.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocknjeep View Post
    Ok, penetration is good to make it a viable round but expansion is not great. I like hst or Lehigh defense.
    I agree. If you watch his other videos you see the HST 124gr normal pressure performs "best". That's what my Shield has in it. Very accurate too.
    Ianthin likes this.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    Senior Member Array jackrock's Avatar
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    For me, it's always a balance of cost and performance. Thankfully, unlike practice ammo, cost is less of a factor. I went with HSTs, but it wound up being my third choice - not because of cost or performance. But because of availability. I was going to buy some Winchester Ranger T-series, but found HSTs at my LGS.

    My point - it's not always about performance. Sometimes what you want is simply not available. Thankfully, mine was (at freakin' $2/round!!!).
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrock View Post
    For me, it's always a balance of cost and performance. Thankfully, unlike practice ammo, cost is less of a factor. I went with HSTs, but it wound up being my third choice - not because of cost or performance. But because of availability. I was going to buy some Winchester Ranger T-series, but found HSTs at my LGS.

    My point - it's not always about performance. Sometimes what you want is simply not available. Thankfully, mine was (at freakin' $2/round!!!).
    Agreed. I paid $31 out the door for 20 HSTs. OUCH! But they don't always have them. Try finding Gold Dot short barreled 124gr bullets, they are like unicorns.
    Ianthin and ETXhiker like this.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    Senior Member Array jackrock's Avatar
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    Next time, I'm ordering Ranger T-Series or Winchester Defends in a box of 100 through sgammo.com, so I have enough to cover my wife's pistol, as well.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrock View Post
    Next time, I'm ordering Ranger T-Series or Winchester Defends in a box of 100 through sgammo.com, so I have enough to cover my wife's pistol, as well.
    That's a good idea. Sucks when you spend $30 on a box of hollow points and can't even top off two mags before you run out. In the case of my G23 it takes $90 to fill the three mags it came with with HSTs.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    Senior Member Array AdamSean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I agree. If you watch his other videos you see the HST 124gr normal pressure performs "best". That's what my Shield has in it. Very accurate too.
    Dang! I missed that one. I have always liked the HST round. And I do believe its available locally.

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    Snagged a box of Ranger in .40 at a show this weekend for less than $30, otherwise I save up if I can and order from SG.

    Oh, and count me in on the HST in my P938. It runs in all my guns, is a proven performer, and can be found pretty easily locally, and pretty cheap online.
    I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm saying remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array jackrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianthin View Post
    Oh, and count me in on the HST in my P938. It runs in all my guns, is a proven performer, and can be found pretty easily locally, and pretty cheap online.
    Cheap? Where are you looking? Because I've never found it with both attributes: Cheap and Available.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamSean View Post
    Dang! I missed that one. I have always liked the HST round. And I do believe its available locally.
    Well, no doubt the Defend ammo does well, especially in 147gr moving so slowly. I guess I just like my 9mm rounds going over 1000fps if possible. And with a 3" gun, it's mighty hard to get that in 147gr. That said the defend ammo must be engineered to open up going really slow, cause it did do well in gel.

    What surprised me most about his tests, was the failure of the standard pressure gold dots in 124, 115, and 147gr.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    I have been running the Speer Gold Dots 147 gr jhp's in my Kahr CM-9 but I think I may give the T&D's a try.

    Hope I can find them at my LGS.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamSean View Post
    I have been looking at the The fairly new Winchester Train and Defend line for a little while now. And I just realized that these guys tested them out. And wow, is all I can say. I will let the video speak for itself.
    I was at the Texas Int'l Firearms Festival last November (I plan on going again this year). I shot the Winchester T&D ammo through an M&P CORE pistol. The rounds where randomly loaded (ten rounds). I could not tell the FMJ from the JHP. I was impressed !
    "Liberal arguments against guns tend to presume the worst: that a yearning for gun ownership must in some way be rooted in the desire to hurt. But gun culture at its best is rooted in a desire to protect, and especially to protect the people we love"
    Rachel Lu (University of St. Thomas)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrock View Post
    Cheap? Where are you looking? Because I've never found it with both attributes: Cheap and Available.
    Last time I bought from SGammo IIRC it was about $25/50. Locally it's that much for 20 though. I try to order my defense stuff for all my calibers at the same time when I need it.
    I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm saying remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.

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