Odd cartridge in box

This is a discussion on Odd cartridge in box within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So today after cleaning my gun after a range trip I was reloading and noticed something strange in my box of HST. I'm hoping someone ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree32Likes

Thread: Odd cartridge in box

  1. #1
    Member Array Compa49's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    462

    Odd cartridge in box

    So today after cleaning my gun after a range trip I was reloading and noticed something strange in my box of HST. I'm hoping someone can help me out to identify the rogue round. The round in question is the brass on one the left.
    IMG_1799.JPG

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    8,709
    Hard to tell but the headstamp appears to be Federal also, maybe a brass round was put in the box and it slipped past QC.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moderator Central
    Posts
    36,715
    That could have happened wherever you purchased that box of ammo also. Possibly a clerk showing both variations of cartridges and then replacing both in the wrong boxes.
    Crescentstar, jem102, mkh and 7 others like this.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #4
    Member Array Compa49's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    462
    I bought these online so unlikely they got switched by accident. The head of both look identical. I am wondering what the NT stands for or the significance on the rogue cartridge. That and the case are the only noticeable differences.

  5. #5
    Member Array kmckinnon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Posts
    283
    Found this at federalpremium.com. Maybe you can ask them?

    For ammunition questions please call (800) 379-1732 and ask to speak with Federal Premium Product Services team member. Representatives are available between 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. CT Monday through Friday.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    1,244
    Quote Originally Posted by Compa49 View Post
    I bought these online so unlikely they got switched by accident. The head of both look identical. I am wondering what the NT stands for or the significance on the rogue cartridge. That and the case are the only noticeable differences.
    Lead free ammo? (Non Toxic)

  7. #7
    Member Array kmckinnon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Palm Coast, Florida
    Posts
    283
    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Lead free ammo? (Non Toxic)
    Agree. I did some more searching and found NT headstamp is for Non Toxic. Nice catch stanislaskasava!

  8. #8
    Member Array Dave_Sab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    91
    I found this:

    Non-Toxic (NT) primers were designed for indoor shooting ranges to minimize lead vapor. Regular primers use a lead base mixture whereas the NT primers do not contain lead.

    The flash holes are larger in cases marked "NT" and should not be reloaded with regular primers. The standard flash hole size is set at 5/64" for all US made ammo whereas NT cases have a 3/32" flash hole. Although the size doesn't appear to be much different, the NT flash hole is 30% larger in area. Flash holes are used to regulate how much pressure is applied to a primer when the round is fired. A standard primer is rated for about 40,000 psi chamber pressure so with NT sized flash holes, the max pressure would be lowered to 28,000 psi. No big deal if you are shooting 45 ACPs but it is a big deal with higher pressure rounds such as a 9mm, 38 Super, or 40 S&W where normal operating pressures are 35,000 psi. Unless there have been recent changes, the 45 ACP NT cases use small pistol primers but the regular cases use large pistol primers.
    "I'd much rather go to my grave never needing my gun, than go there wishing I had it.

  9. #9
    TRX
    TRX is online now
    Distinguished Member Array TRX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    central Arkansas
    Posts
    1,557
    I don't know what the current state of affairs is, but the early lead-free primers had relatively short shelf lives. If you have much of it on hand, you might want to check with the manufacturer to see what the storage life is.

    There are several lead-free primer compositions, but some of them are unstable over time. Others perform differently depending on temperature.

    The "perfect" priming compound is ye olde potassium chlorate, the "corrosive" compound nowadays mostly seen only in Combloc military surplus ammunition. Chlorate primers laugh at desert or Arctic temperatures and have a shelf life of forever, as far as anyone can tell. Lead styphnate, the usual "non-corrosive" compound, doesn't like extremes of heat and cold much, though going on a century of chemical twiddling has improved that a lot. The new "non-toxic" non-corrosive primers... "caveat emptor."

  10. #10
    Member Array Sliderfusion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    328
    I would have to agree with QKShooter, couldn't see it happening at the factory.
    CLASS3NH likes this.
    "ALWAYS EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED!"

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    3,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Sab View Post
    ...Non-Toxic (NT) primers were designed for indoor shooting ranges to minimize lead vapor. Regular primers use a lead base mixture whereas the NT primers do not contain lead...

    ...The standard flash hole size is set at 5/64" for all US made ammo whereas NT cases have a 3/32" flash hole. Although the size doesn't appear to be much different, the NT flash hole is 30% larger in area...
    If those dimensions are accurate, it's actually 44% larger!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Sab View Post
    ...Unless there have been recent changes, the 45 ACP NT cases use small pistol primers but the regular cases use large pistol primers.
    Is this a pretty solid rule of thumb? I've seen the occasional .45 ACP case with a small primer, but didn't know that this distinguishes the NT primers from the regular ones. Good to know!
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society - "Get Heeled! No, really!"
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Bob from Southern New Hampshire
    Posts
    5,399
    The "NT" brass also has a crimped primer pocket. Mainly used in Military application/ contract with Federal cartridge company......Hope this helps. If you reload, you've got to swage out the primer pocket. If not, shoot it up.
    gasmitty likes this.
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  13. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    3,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliderfusion View Post
    I would have to agree with QKShooter, couldn't see it happening at the factory.
    It could very easily happen at the factory.

    A round falls on the floor (or somewhere), and a worker puts it back in the wrong place, or a primed NT case remains in a hopper when the switch is made from NT to regular production. This kind of stuff happens all the time in manufacturing environments.
    msgt/ret likes this.
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society - "Get Heeled! No, really!"
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  14. #14
    Member Array Compa49's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by kmckinnon View Post
    Found this at federalpremium.com. Maybe you can ask them?

    For ammunition questions please call (800) 379-1732 and ask to speak with Federal Premium Product Services team member. Representatives are available between 7 a.m. - 7 p.m. CT Monday through Friday.
    After I posted this I looked at Federal's website an sent them an email. I am waiting to see what they say. But what everyone says about it being a non-toxic primer makes sense. Thanks for everyones response. I will let everyone know what Federal says once I get an answer.
    Kilowatt3 likes this.

  15. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    3,739
    Quote Originally Posted by CLASS3NH View Post
    The "NT" brass also has a crimped primer pocket. Mainly used in Military application/ contract with Federal cartridge company......Hope this helps. If you reload, you've got to swage out the primer pocket. If not, shoot it up.
    Well, you've convinced me!

    I'm going to pitch any of those cases, along with the steel & aluminum ones I may happen across. I've got plenty of "regular" .45 brass to use without having to deal with crimped, oddball-sized primers!

    Thanks for the info.
    CLASS3NH likes this.
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society - "Get Heeled! No, really!"
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •