.40S&W GoldDot, TAP & GS results

.40S&W GoldDot, TAP & GS results

This is a discussion on .40S&W GoldDot, TAP & GS results within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This weekend, my son and I conducted some back yard ballistics for .40S&W using wet phonebooks taped together back to back. With the books combined ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    .40S&W GoldDot, TAP & GS results

    This weekend, my son and I conducted some back yard ballistics for .40S&W using wet phonebooks taped together back to back. With the books combined we had a total of 9 inches of depth.

    I recently posted a thread about my Glock 23 project gun, and have followed postings on Ammunition & Ballistics about the .40S&W. It has been my choice to use Remington Golden Sabers because that is the specific round used by local L.E. I believe it is a strong case to “use the same ammunition to protect my family as the police use to protect citizens.”

    That said- I wanted to see for myself what worked best among the ammo popular on the forum. I was given some Speer Gold Dot in 155 grain. I purchased Hornady TAP in 155 grain. I used the Remington Gold Saber in 165 grain (non-bonded) for comparison.

    Hornady- TAP – most recoil & penetration – 7.5” penetration - no expansion. The recoil and muzzle flip was noticeably different compared to the other rounds, (It was like +P+) The round almost came out the back of the last book! The bullet is very rounded and should work well in guns that otherwise have feeding problems.
    Speer Gold Dot- 5.5” penetration – no expansion. The GD in 9mm is great and I expected it to perform great here, but lack of expansion of any kind was a let down.
    Golden Saber – 4” penetration most rip through book 1; I was surprised to find in my initial test the GS was the only one to expand. It produced the most trauma/ ripping through the first book (due to expansion and tumble.)

    I repeated the test using a license plate (would have preferred board or plywood) mounted in front of the books with only the TAP and GD to get some expansion. 2 rounds of each did not yield a single expansion. Perhaps jugs of H2O would yield better mushrooming.


  2. #2
    DRT
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    Perhaps using a bullet that's designed to expand more reliably would also help.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Was the paper wet all the way through, I performed a simular test some time back with Gold Dots, and Golden Sabres and both expanded very well, 4 shots each, When I target practice, the back stop is dry wood, and I find all brands filled and nonexpanded.

    Just curious.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    Good question. All books were soaked.

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    kpw
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    Some years back I did a similar test with a few different calibers. I stuffed 1 gallon freezer bags as full as I could get them with newspaper and then filled them with water and let them sit a couple hours. I lined them up in an old cooler that I cut a widow out of at one end. I got some interesting results. All the 9, .40 and .357 HPs expanded. Most .38s did not and some .45s did not. .44 Special Silvertips did. The prettiest were the .40 Starfires, the meanest looking were the .40 Black Talon. The .45 BT barely opened. I did say it was some years ago. The 9, .40 and .45 HS all worked very well. The most impressive? The .357 Remington 125 gr. SJHP. From 10 feet away, I was wet and covered in soggy newspaper that had blown back through the window. It blew a large volume of this slop out of the top of the cooler and penetrated well into the third bag. About 18 inches or so. The bullet shed it's mushroom sending fragments all through it's path and the remaining core continued to mushroom to the end. I could understand why this load earned such a good reputation as a stopper from what I saw. Sorry for the long winded post but it was a real blast that I'd like to try again someday. BTW, it's a messy cleanup!

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRT View Post
    Perhaps using a bullet that's designed to expand more reliably would also help.

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    Hornady TAP did not impress me when I tried it either.

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    tests

    I test by filling a 5 gallon bucket with newspaper and water. Neater that way, but still not scientific. At least you're testing your ammo. I don't think the majority of shooters do anything more than buy whatever's in stock at the gunshop or whatever's recommended this month in the gun magazines.

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    i still like the old 158gr lead semi wadcutter hollow point when i tested those about 10 years ago they still perform better then all the new fancy stuff we have these days i still use them in my 38 and 357 snubbies.
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  10. #10
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911shooter View Post
    i still like the old 158gr lead semi wadcutter hollow point when i tested those about 10 years ago they still perform better then all the new fancy stuff we have these days i still use them in my 38 and 357 snubbies.
    That was one of the few .38 loads that I tested that did expand when I tested them in a 2 in. snubby. It was the Winchester version. Not dramatic expansion but it did open up. I'd like to test the 135 Gold Dots the same way and see how they compare. Most of the 129+P HS didn't open at all. Forget the 158 JHPs.

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    I tested a few brands in diffrent media before. However our backyard tests probably are not nearly as scientific or accurate as the manufacturers testing.
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    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    I tested a few brands in diffrent media before. However our backyard tests probably are not nearly as scientific or accurate as the manufacturers testing.
    I agree. My thought was that every manufacturer has absolute proof that their product is the best ever. So- how do they stack up through my gun in my "lab."

    I'm open to other test methods. We could always get whole pigs like mythbusters... but thats a little much.

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    I did some tests of my own with wet newspaper. The Federal HST non-bonded performed flawlessly, and open up so big it's rediculous. They look identical to the mushroomed "HST" on the box.The bonded don't open as good & aren't absolutely necessary cause the reg HST have knurls (SP?) that kinda hold it together. The 135 gr. .40 rounds tested kinda suck. high velocity, but the mushroomed rounds seem stretched a bit thin with so little lead to work with. Gold Dots perform almost as good 155 or 180 had identical ballistics and xpand great. Every other round is judged by this standard to me. P.S. I think your phonebooks weren't completely saturated cause paper can plug a HP such as Gold Dots and others if not wet enough.
    Last edited by MattXYZ; May 26th, 2007 at 11:10 AM.

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    .45 Tap, Gs

    Just yesterday I tested .45 TAP (230 gr +P) and 230 gr. GS out of a 3" barrel Springfield Micro Compact. Also some MagTech "First Defense" 165-grain solid copper hollow points.

    Wet phone books, soaked.

    The TAP opened up to 0.72" and held together, the GS the same expansion but the cores separated. The 165 gr magTech failed to expand 50 percent of the time. Not impressed with that stuff. The GS and TAP penetrated about 4-5", the 230 gr FMJ and unopened magtech went to about 6-7".

    Just my experience, but the .45 TAP looks very good to me.

    JWB

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    Senior Member Array TonyW's Avatar
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    Has anyone used one of these tubes:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=739849

    They look interesting and like they can give the average guy a better, more scientific idea on how the HD ammo will work.
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