Lightweight 45 ACP Ammo - Page 2

Lightweight 45 ACP Ammo

This is a discussion on Lightweight 45 ACP Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; EFMJ unless you can't find them, then pow"r"ball....

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Thread: Lightweight 45 ACP Ammo

  1. #16
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    EFMJ unless you can't find them, then pow"r"ball.


  2. #17
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    As said, good performing bullet should be priority , over weight savings.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  3. #18
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by XD45Golfer View Post
    Thanks Para, Just so you know I am looking for the best of both worlds. Something that is effective and lightweight. Don't hate on the Air Force because you chose an inferior branch. Oh and how is the military's gang capital of the world treating you? FYI, I am an E-6 in the Security Forces carrer field, look at the bases over in Iraq who is not only guarding the grunts, and jarheads but going out and taking on in-leau of missions, that's right it is us..... so the next time you want to comment on the Air Force remember we are out there the same as you are.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you my friend. "Guarding the grunts and the jarheads" I think not, it's more like you(SPs) are guarding the flightlines and writing tickets. You don't spend nearly as much time (if any) outside the wire as your Army and Marine Corps counterparts. Plus you all are only in Theater for 4 months in most cases!

    I have an appreciation for the Airforce for what it provides us Warfighters. Close Air Support, Air Superiorty, transportation in and out of Theater, and providing paratroopers transportation to Drop Zones (Training and Combat)! But you don't do the same thing as us. You just went to a real "PT test" a couple years ago. Weren't you all sitting on stationary bikes just 3 years ago?

    For the record Ft. Bragg is the Home of the 82nd Airborne Division, 18th Airborne Corps, US Army Special Operations Command, 7th Special Forces Group, 3rd Special Forces Group, Joint Special Operations Command, Special Warfare Training Group, "Delta" and countless other prestigious, rapid deployable, warfighting units. Where did you get your info that Ft. Bragg's the "Military's Gang Capital of the World." That is statement absolutely false!

    Inferior Branch?! You've got to be kidding, I'm not even going to address that.

    Back to ammo...I carry 230gr +P in both of my .45s (USP full + USP compact)

    165gr in .45 is a poor performer in comparison to heavier rounds. If you're stuck on the lighter rounds 185gr or 200gr would be your best bet.

    SSG J
    USASOC

  4. #19
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    I don't want to start a verbal war over this issue, but I have to say YOU are the one that is incorrect. US SP's as you say deploy differently than the rest of the AF. And we don't JUST sit on flightlines and write tickets we are one of the best for ABD, that my friend is what we are about. I'd like to see you tell a 820th SF member that all he does is sit and write tickets. DO your research on what our career field is about first. And lastly I am not saying that FT. Bragg doesn't house the elite like the 82nd Airborne, just go take a trip down to the NCO club on a friday night and watch the groups of ARMY soldiers flipping gang signs with out a care in the world. THAT is why it is the gang capital.
    "The great object is, that every man be armed.... Every one who is able may have a gun."
    - Patrick Henry

  5. #20
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    Gotta agree with XD45Golfer on the gang thing to a certain point. The All-Sports Club on Bragg on a Friday night was the most violent, disgusting display of "soldiers" (and Airmen - Pope is right there, too) gone wrong that I have ever seen. It was worse than the Hidden Door at Benning, worse then the clubs at Lewis (that we Rangers were all banned from when I was there, anyway), worse than the Boot Hill Saloon in Daytona during Bike Week in the 80s (I grew up there). Granted, many of the worst of them were civilian "guests," but that place was a madhouse. We called it "the Mog" after a few visits, because there were so many brawls, so many MPs, so many problems (this was in Spring/Summer of '04 - the first and only time I spent any real time at Bragg).

    As an example - After a few weekends of the MPs getting their collective butts beat by these scumbags, they showed up in force, with every dog on Bragg (or so it seemed) standing by. Me and my guys barely made it out before a teeth-on-flesh party ensued...

    OK, that was massively off topic, sorry... :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #21
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    Those "gang members" that you guys saw at Sports USA and the NCO Club represent an enormously small portion of the Ft. Bragg Community. You're Security Forces, you should know that Extremist Organizations, Hate Groups, and Gangs are aggressively sought out and seperated from the services. 30 or so knuckleheads *not gang members* at a club doesn't translate into "Gang Capital". There are 70,000 soldiers assigned to Ft. Bragg!! You're wrong again.

    How do you deploy differently? What is ABD? What makes you think the Air Force is superior?

    PM me....I'm sure nobody wants to see our discussion, plus the Moderator might lock this thread. We are a little off topic.

    *Disclaimer* Just a friendly discussion between two E-6s in the US Armed Forces

  7. #22
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    Back to the topic..... I have been doing research on the RBCD rounds, from other threads and RBCD.net. there is a round that is 90gr - 2036 fps / 828 flbs. Now to me that seems like a very effective round that is also lightweight. Can someone explain why a 230gr round that has a lower FPS and FLBS could be more effective than the 90gr round stated above. To me wouldn't you want a round that travels faster and has a bigger punch?
    "The great object is, that every man be armed.... Every one who is able may have a gun."
    - Patrick Henry

  8. #23
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    The problem with light weight rounds is lack of penetration. This can often be overcome by velocity, but only if the round is moving fast enough and maintains enough mass (i.e. doesn't fragment too much) to allow it to penetrate.

    Everyone has their own ideas about how much penetration is necessary/ideal, but in the .45 round, bullets in the 165-230 grain weight are generally accepted as having adequate penetration. I can't speak to the 90 grain round as I have no experience or education on them, but they sound pretty light considering how broad they are and thus how much resistance they will have to overcome to penetrate the relatively dense medium of flesh.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #24
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    90 grain? isn't that the size of a 380 round?

  10. #25
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    Comment on the Military

    Greeting to everyone. First I do take the comments that Fort Bragg is home of Gangs and Thugs. It happens to be the home of many elite units that most cannot even be accepted or would qualify to be assigned there. I have three tours at Fort Bragg and would do it again. I will never talk bad about our other services becuase we all do a great job. I also commanded a BCD that is the team that lives and support the Air Force Operations Center. So I know a little about the AF after 26 years in service. All services have a few bad apples...that does not make that service any better then the other. God Bless.

    All The Way!

    Carlos Rodriguez
    Colonel, USA

  11. #26
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    Whatever ammo you carry should be fired/tested at less for 100-200rounds. For most of us that leaves out testing the $2-$3 a round speciality ammo. Most 45 autos were not designed for ammo weighing less than 180-185 grains and may need a lighter recoil spring. Try the aluminum cased Blazer ammo and keep the bullet weight in a "normal" range unless you are willing to run at least 100-200 rounds throught the gun.

  12. #27
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    XD45Golfer, I think you will find that most folks who shoot/carry .45 acp are more interested in a heavier projectile at lower velocity.

    I personally don't care to stake my life on a bullet expanding at handgun velocities, so I carry a .45 and make .45 caliber holes in things regardless of expansion. ymmv

    I think that obtaining a quality carry rig will allow you to base your carry ammo choice on performance. Good Luck!
    Sprinfield XD 4" .45 Compact
    Blackhawk SERPA

  13. #28
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    Newbie here, retired USAF ('68-90) "Mustang", 9 years Enlisted, 13 Officer.

    It's always been "customary" to bash other services, I've been in a few "encounters" in my time in the '60s and early '70s. But when all was said and done, we were "comrads in arms" and still buddies. The USAF FAC and CAS resources, and the "trash-haulers" all get shot at by the same enemy that's shooting at the grunts. We're all in this s*&t together.

    Hope the stories about gang-like behavior at NCO clubs is exaggerated... if not, it bodes poorly for our Military. Poor leadership at best...

    On topic, I've tried a number of light bullets in .45s for years, most recently the magtech "First Defense" solid copper Hollow Point. I've done numerous tests into soaked phone books over the years.

    the hi-velocity lightweights that fragment are Useless, IMO.

    These magtech solid coppers fail to open up at times so they act as a solid, with identical penetration as a 230 FMJ. The ones that do happen to expand only go to about 0.6" as opposed to 0.7 to 0.72" with the 230 gr Golden Saber, Gold Dot, etc. Even out of a 3" barrel.

    My advice is to avoid the lightweights.

    Just my $0.02...

    JWB

  14. #29
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    Post

    XD,

    It's a question of sectional density. A light fast bullet tends to shed weight or 'come apart' if you will when it hits. This leads to good energy transfer, but poor penetration. The problem with that is no handgun bullet has enough energy to incapacite a BG. That's what rifles do.
    Handgun bullets rely only on crushing tissue to do damage, not stretching and tearing tissue like a high energy (rifle) round. That being said, the way to stop a threat is rapid blood loss or nervous system shutdown. The thing is, all the parts of human anatomy that cause massive bleeding when perforated are deep in the body, thus requiring Penetration. Therefore, a heavy, slightly slower bullet will retain its weight, and hence 'punch through' a target farther than a light one. So the magic word for handgun rounds is 'Penetration'.

    It's not a pretty subject, but important information, nonetheless....

    -Tim

  15. #30
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    XD,

    I have to disagree, CCW isn't backpacking where the fewer the ounces the better... my personal choice for all my CCW's is Cor-Bon DPX because I believe it's the very best SD ammo available. I don't like the price either but, my family and I are worth it and I'll just have to tuff it out carring the few extra ounces! But then again, I am a Marine!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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