April 17th, 2007 10:26 PM
.45 acp FMJ vs. JHP
I bought a box of 230gr. JHP for about 26.00 box / 50 for my Springfield 1911A1 Micro. They would not cycle properly in the gun, do to the steep ramping area into the chamber. I sold them to a friend for a small loss, but that has brought up the question to me... do I need to bother with hollow points with the stopping power of a .45? A serious gun enthusiast friend of mine says don't bother with the JHP.
This is probably old news here, but I was interested in some opinions.
April 17th, 2007 10:58 PM
This is only my opinion and plenty will disagree.
I personally would and do use FMJ as defensive ammo in a .45. I think the .45 has plenty of stopping power in FMJ, as proven by its track record on the battlefield in war.
As far as reaching vital organs, you bet it will. I can also incapacitate effectively. A bullet that big doesn't need to expand to be effective. Of course, shot placement is paramount regardless.
The main reason I choose FMJ is its near flawless reliability in cycling. I have seen a lot of autos that would feed HPs and some that wouldn't, but they all feed FMJ. (at least if they are worth having)If they won't feed FMJ, melt 'em down or use 'em for paperweights.
Over penetration may be an issue that turns some off, but I don't think this is a valid argument in most cases. How many people have you heard of who were shot or killed accidentally by overpenetration? Probably none, or if a few, a statistically irrelevant number. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
Again, JMO, yours may be different.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
April 17th, 2007 11:35 PM
I prefer HP's for defensive carry. Look at Pwrball ammo. poly tipped HP's.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
April 18th, 2007 12:30 AM
where did you get a 50 round box of JHP for $26.00? I pay alomst that for 20 rounds!
If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.
"Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."
April 18th, 2007 06:15 AM
I've got a Micro myself. You might want to get a local gunsmith to do a nice polish job on the ramp and breach face. Did it to mine and it will feed pretty much anything I've ever tried on it. Different HP's also have different shapes. Just because one brand won't feed does not mean another one won't function flawlessly. I had another 1911 that wouldn't feed Hydroshock but would feed Gold Dots all day.
While I wouldn't feel underarmed carrying 230gr ball, the hollow points lower the chance of a carry through going some where I didn't want a bullet to go.
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
April 18th, 2007 08:23 AM
I carry 16 rounds of FMJ 230grn ball every day, and have no worries about it.
I am currently testing HP's, and just haven't found what I am looking for just yet. Some real contenders, but nothing that I have settled on.
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair
April 18th, 2007 08:32 AM
I currently load Winchester Ranger SXT (now T-Series). It's available online in the $23-$25 range. Last gun show I bought it for $19/box. Reliable feed in my 3" or 5" 1911s.
Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
April 18th, 2007 09:18 AM
Just because one type or brand doesn't work try some others. You may have to try every one out there to find the righ tone for your gun. As far as FMJ go I can't think of a reason to carry them unless required by law (NJ).
April 18th, 2007 10:34 AM
Statistically FMJ has a lower percentage of "one shot stops" than a good JHP. But if you can't find a hollow point that will feed what do you do? I would try a couple of different JHP loads and see if I could find one that feeds reliably. If not, and I didn't have the cash available to have a smith fix it, then I would go with FMJ until I could afford to get it fixed. I am by no means saying that FMJ is not effective, just not as effective as a premium JHP.
April 18th, 2007 11:31 AM
Concur with Elcruiser.... try different types until you find a round that feeds reliably. Mine loves WInchester XST.
S&W M&P .45
Virginia Beach, Va.
Senior Chief Petty Officer, RETIRED, USN
Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
NRA Range Officer
April 18th, 2007 01:04 PM
Most (I said "most", not all) 45 ACP 230 grain JHP bullets have a rounded (feed friendly) shape. Some don't, but most will.
To the contrary, many lighter 45 ACP JHPs (165-200 grains) have a more blunt and/or tapered shape to them.
Most places will allow you to open the box and look.
Some that have a good feeding shape are (all 230 grains):
Various Winchester (including their cheaper USA "white box" JHPs)
Some Remington (again, including their cheaper UMC brand)
One lighter weight bullet that should feed is the previously mentioned CorBon PowRBall (165 grains). It is basically a JHP with a plastic insert in the HP cavity, giving it a round nose shape.
One more option is the Federal EFMJ- Expanding Full Metal Jacket. This bullet has what appears to be a standard FMJ bullet, but under the nose is a silicone piece. When it impacts, the nose crushes down against the silicone and the result resembles a mushroomed JHP.
I don't recall if the SA Micro has a ramped barrel. If it does, that doesn't help feeding. Ramped 1911 barrels have a steeper ramp than standard barrels. Things are more critical for feeding.
I'd send it to SA or a gunsmith for a little "slicking up".
Standard-size 1911s have some built-in leeway to feed properly. As they get shortened, that leeway dwindles, so it's more critical for everything to be just right. Personally, I gave up on "compact" 1911s, but if I had to carry one, I would make sure it fed JHPs even if I were to only use FMJ in it- just to be sure.
Which brings me to FMJs for carry. I wouldn't. The gun should feed some type of JHPs. If not, get it fixed, try more ammo, or get a different gun.
I would be too afraid of FMJs penetrating whatever I was shooting at and traveling beyond. We own every bullet we shoot.
Not that JHPs are miracle workers that can slam on the brakes after going only as far as we want, but they should generally help. A little bit might make the difference.
The military uses FMJ because they have to. We have a choice. Don't believe all of the reputation. If I did, I would think that anyone hit in the hand with a 45 would fly through the air and have to be picked out of a tree.
Handguns are weaklings compared to rifles and shotguns. An oft-repeated stat is that 80% of the people shot with a handgun survive. I have not heard any figures for long guns, but they are probably at least the opposite.
If you need to shoot someone to stop them from whatever they are doing, and all you have is a handgun, you need all the help you can get. Of course, above all it has to work, so if FMJ is all that will work, and you are stuck with that gun, use FMJ.
And remember: Any bullet, no matter how small or large, or what configuration, has to be placed correctly. Training is a wonderful thing, and worth more than almost any "ballistic advantage".
But that's all just my opinion.
April 18th, 2007 01:26 PM
Even if overpenetration doesn't kill or hurt someone else, That the round exits the intended target tell me that A LOT of energy is being wasted and not deposited into the badguy. The permanent wound channel is also smaller than it could be. Given a choice, JHP is the way to go IMO. If one won't work, check out the expanding powerballs.
April 18th, 2007 01:47 PM
You might try Federals Expandable Full Metal Jacket in .45 caliber. That's my defense carry rounds.
For God, Family and Country!
April 18th, 2007 07:32 PM
The Winchester "white box" line includes some very capable JHP ammo for an inexpensive price. Some of my SHTF ammo is just that. Was that the load in question? That's what they sell for at my local Wal Mart. The Gold Saber 185gr and 230gr HPs are very rounded, and the jacket is extra stiff. Feeds good in almost anything. You might try experimenting with a few different loads, but none will be as cheap probably. A reliability job on that pistol would cost less than $30 or $40, and don't forget to check the magazine.
April 18th, 2007 08:23 PM
I buy all of my personal defense ammo online or at gunshows. It's much less expensive and in most cases a better rounds then what's available at the local shops
Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy
Example. a box (20rds) of Federal Personal Defense HydraShok 230gr costs about $25 after taxes. I can get Federal HST 230gr or Federal Tactical Bonded 230 for the same price, and here's the kicker----->they come in 50rd boxes!
This one particular guy that I've been dealing with also sells Winchester Ranger Talons for $25 a box (50rd)
check it out http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/s...l?ref=hotpig27
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