HD Shotgun Ammo Question - Page 2

HD Shotgun Ammo Question

This is a discussion on HD Shotgun Ammo Question within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not a bad idea: 1st round to be fired (so last to be loaded in most cases) is a round of birdshot, followed in the ...

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  1. #16
    New Member Array perpster's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea: 1st round to be fired (so last to be loaded in most cases) is a round of birdshot, followed in the magazine by buck. The theory is that one round of bird may be enough to make the aggressor change his mind with minimal risk of hitting a friendly behind a wall. If the birdshot doesn't work then the buck gets fired.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by perpster View Post
    Not a bad idea: 1st round to be fired (so last to be loaded in most cases) is a round of birdshot, followed in the magazine by buck. The theory is that one round of bird may be enough to make the aggressor change his mind with minimal risk of hitting a friendly behind a wall. If the birdshot doesn't work then the buck gets fired.
    Perpster, if I am ever in fear of my life to the point I am firing a shotgun at them, I am firing until the threat is neutralized. No sense in wasting the first shot just trying to wound them, if you do, and they survive, they could sue you in civil court for damages, and the fact that your bird shot was backed with buck would indicate that you just might have been trying to cause pain. Just some food for thought for you.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  3. #18
    New Member Array perpster's Avatar
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    I don't necessarily agree with the idea, but it's worth considering depending on your individual circumstances and surroundings.

  4. #19
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    Well, you don't have to agree with it, just giving you some food for thought. I am the only person on this floor of my dwelling, so I am just fine with 00.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Does 00 buck overpenetrate? Do you think most of the pellets would be absorbed by the body or do you think they would exit and still penetrate sheetrock walls?

    The reason I ask is because I have to be very careful about which direction I would have to shoot my 870 in defensive shooting due to family members on the other side of the house. My pistol is not an option at all due to the risk of overpentration. I use standard 2.75 inch loads of lead 00.

    I feel like I should be using birdshot.....but I know that this will only wound my attacker and not stop the fight.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  6. #21
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    Doc, I am going mostly off the Box O' Truth on this, it seems to be pretty fair and shows results.

    Their #4 penetrated the euqivalent of one less (3) wall than 00 (4 walls), but the 00 still penetrated fewer walls than 9mm, .45 or .223. The fact that the force is spread throughout several pellets probably helps that (I study history, not physics).

    I think if you hit something "soft" before the wall, it will probably dissipate the energy pretty well and overpenetration shouldn't be too much of an issue.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye07 View Post
    Perpster, if I am ever in fear of my life to the point I am firing a shotgun at them, I am firing until the threat is neutralized. No sense in wasting the first shot just trying to wound them, if you do, and they survive, they could sue you in civil court for damages, and the fact that your bird shot was backed with buck would indicate that you just might have been trying to cause pain. Just some food for thought for you.

    Oh what officer yes I was woken up in the middle of the night and thank God I was able to remember where I had put my shotgun and the shells (which of course was seperate officer) you know I haven't used it since Dove/Deer season. Well i didnt have my reading glasses on so while Maybell called you I found what I could and used it not knowing that the buckshot and birdshot was mixed up.

    Sorry he had to die like that, want a cup of coffee?

    Delivery is key. BGs are not the only ones that can make themselves sound so innocent and harmless.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  8. #23
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    Shadowsbane, I see your point.

    But if you are honestly feared for your life, it does not make any sense to fire in any manner other than to effectively neutralize the threat as soon as possible. It would be like loading the first round in your carry weapon with a wax bullet, in hopes of scaring them off with the first shot.

    Why waste one barrel, or one spot in your tube with a round that isn't likely to incapacitate when you could use the same space for something that will. If it is to the point that I need to fire, their chance to turn around and leave is already over.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Cap'n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    Oh what officer yes I was woken up in the middle of the night and thank God I was able to remember where I had put my shotgun and the shells (which of course was seperate officer) you know I haven't used it since Dove/Deer season. Well i didnt have my reading glasses on so while Maybell called you I found what I could and used it not knowing that the buckshot and birdshot was mixed up.

    Sorry he had to die like that, want a cup of coffee?

    Delivery is key. BGs are not the only ones that can make themselves sound so innocent and harmless.
    Don't know about your state laws, but in Tennessee a home invasion is considered as an act to commit bodily harm and you are allowed, by law, to use lethal force against the intruder. With that said, the intruder will be met, in my house, with a shotgun loaded with Hornady Tap 00 buck and will be carried back out feet first. End of story.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    I think Sixto is right a $5 box of 7&1/2'S will work as well as anything.
    I've seen people shot at near-point-blank ranges with birdshot. It did NOT stop them. It DID piss them off, and it DID hurt them significantly... but it didn't stop the threat.

    After looking at some pattern comparisons, Federal Tactical 2-3/4" 00buck is the way to go.

  11. #26
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    Lots of discussions like these end up bickering over bird vs. buck and I always pose the question/answer: What do the vast majority of LE and military load up their shotties with?

    00 Buck. Good enough for them, good enough for me.

  12. #27
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    I'm not sure I would use slugs for inside, but somewhere between #4 and 00buck seems about right.

    Currently my 870 has #4 turkey load 3" shells with 1-7/8 ounces of shot. I feel pretty safe but I do have some 00buck "hanging around" in a 1300 defender in case the zombies show up. ;-)
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    I think Sixto is right a $5 box of 7&1/2'S will work as well as anything.
    Just for clarification, thats not what I meant. I was speaking of different brands, not loads.

    Funny story (well its funny if you have a gallows type humor)

    A kid shot an intruder with a 20ga and bird shot... the BG was running past a wall, the bird shot struck true and "painted" the wall behind the bad guy with blood spatters. It was a action shot painting of the bad guy running, but it did not stop the BG.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #29
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    For Hd I use #4 Fedearl Turkey load 3"

    Followed by one S&B slug and 4 S&B 00 buck.

    I 4 more 00 and 1 more slug in the stock pouch. I have the slugs for the same reason you stated So i can shoot through something if I have too.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  15. #30
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    Followed by one S&B slug and 4 S&B 00 buck.
    pgrass, do you have the #4, then slug, then 00 in the tube? Just wondering because couldn't that get kind of confusing and you might get a slug when you don't want it. I just keep the slugs on a bandolier or side saddle, odds are they wouldn't be needed at all, and I'd rather have that space in my tube with 00, its easier to load in a new slug at the top of the tube then try to remember whats coming p next.

    SIXTO, Ya didn't happen to take any pictures did ya?
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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