Glazer Safety Slugs?

[Griblik]

Hello all,
Has anyone had any experience with Glazer rounds? They're marketed as being "safety slugs" (seems like an oxymoron- bullets aren't supposed to be safe, they're supposed to be deadly.) Supposed to limit over-penetration. I bring them up for 2 reasons; first, I live in an apartment with paper-thin walls, and while I've put lots of thought into safe angles from which to fire should something go bump in the night, I'm always worried about a richochet, or plain old human error, and having a stray round go introduce itself to my neighbors. Second, from a legal defense standpoint - I've heard mentioned in other posts courts looking down on certain rounds that are of the more "vicious" (ie effective) variety, and I wonder if using a "safety" slug would seem favorable in the eyes of a court trying to send me to prison for defending myself from the aforementioned "bump". But at the same time, I wonder if they're effective enough, or if the use of "safety slugs" would even be taken into consideration. It doesn't do much good to try and cover my butt in court if it means being murdered in my own house because I used ineffective ammunition. If they're any good, I'd probably load them in my .357 revolver (they're available in .38), as that's what I plan on using as my "bump-in-the-night-getter". Any thoughts? Thanks.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[shooter1]

Griblik,
If you do a search on the net you can find information on the frangable ammo such as the Glasser and Mag Safe. Here is a link to one such site, along with a paragraph from the article.
I have a few of the Glasser loaded rounds, that I have meant to test on wet pack. Just haven't gotten around to it. Not to mention the price of these babies!!! Actually, if you can afford it, an AR loaded with ballistic tip type ammo is about the best compromise for home defense. Enough penetration, without excessive penetration, especially on walls. I have seen this combination stop in the second interior wall after missing the subject.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/terminal2.htm


This profile is of the so-called "wonder bullet" the .357 Glasser Safety Slug, 80gr prefragmented bullet at 1785 f/s. This is typical performance of the ultra light weight, high velocity and prefragmented bullets in general . Note the very shallow penetration (4.7"). I'm not impressed, are you?

str1

[BikerRN]

If I were in a crowd situation, such as at the Super Bowl or on an Airplane, I may give them serious consideration.

However, due to the cost, reports I've heard of them not getting enough penetration and different POA/POI to my usual carry ammunition I would have to pass on using them.

Biker

[Blackeagle]

From various things I've read it seems like the Glazers are effective in reducing penetration through things like drywall. Unfortunately, they also reduce penetration in the BG significantly enough that they may not get all the way to his vitals to stop him.

I also live in an apartment with neighbors beneath and on two sides of me, so I have similar concerns about overpenetration. However, I'm just not really comfortable with the stopping power of a frangible pistol round. I ended up going with a .223 rifle loaded with frangible rounds (Hornady TAP 75gr). A rifle has enough velocity that a frangible round will get deep into the BG's vitals, but it still has reduced penetration through drywall.

[Superhouse 15]

Look here:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
They shoot everything into walls, wood, bricks, cars, vests, you name it. Also plenty of tests on everybody's low penetration "favorite", low brass birdshot.

If it was me, I'd plan fields of fire around large furniture, bookcase, gun safe, etc. As for the other question, I guess it couldn't hurt. Better "safety slug" than "EXXXTREME SHOCK!"

[pax]

Everyone makes choices, but I don't think I would trust my own life to the stuff. Nor do I think it's as non-penetrative as the marketing hype would lead you to believe.

Yesterday, I watched several Glasers travel completely through a mocked-up exterior wall (drywall, insulation, & two layers of 1/2" plywood), exiting with enough energy to beautifully splatter a water jug placed behind the wall. I watched one of them penetrate a car door. And I don't think I would bet any money on the stuff not penetrating the flimsy construction of an average interior wall.

Conversely, I also watched how the stuff performed in a water medium, and noted that, where a 9mm JHP traveled through around 5 gallon-sized Ziploc bags full of water, the similarly sized Glaser punctured only 3, leaving very widely spaced itsy-bitsy punctures on the plastic bags. Although water is only a comparative medium rather than a simulated one, in view of the comparative performance I have grave doubts as to whether a Glaser would do enough serious damage to decisively stop a determined attacker.

Superhouse 15's post is right on the money, I think. Get down to the local used-book store and build some safe directions by lining your walls with bookcases, and also think about where you place your furniture.

pax

[QKShooter]

Actually as of the original Glaser (I cannot speak for the newer Glasers) but, at that time no BG individual that had ever been hit COM with a Glaser round in .45 had survived the hit - as the wounds were considered to be surgically not repairable.
That may have changed since but, that was the way it was.

Where the Glaser rounds really excel is that they are very non ricochet.

[Cupcake]

My 2 cents:

I tend to think that while the glaser should make some very nasty wounds, indeed surgically irreparable, they would be relatively shallow. Still likely fatal, but I at least want a chance at the fabled "instant knock down" that you would get from severing the spinal cord. I don't think the glaser could do this. I'va also wondered what a heavy winter/leather coat could do to limit the penetration of all those little bbs. I'd rather not wait for the BG to bleed out. I certainly don't think they're worthless though.

Even If I decided to carry them though, it is gennerally wise not to carry a round that you haven't fired a couple hundred of through your gun, to make sure of reliability. Aren't the glasers a several bucks each? I couldn't afford the trial. PS, I just re-read your post and noticed that you plan on a wheel gun, the extensive trial run may not be needed, just enough to know POI?

If I were very concerned about everpenetration as a result of missed shots, i might think about a scattergun.

[pax]

QK ~

There was a 4-year-old got hit center mass with a Glaser at close range a few years back, here in WA. Recovered with minor wounds. I'll see if I can find the news article if anyone's interested (but it has been a few years, might take some digging ... I think it was in Tacoma?)

pax

[Griblik]

Well, that doesn't bode well in the efficiency department...

[ron8903]

I like powerball a little better.

[Redneck Repairs]

The problem with Glazers ( and i am sure other " pre fragged " ammo ) is that its generational , Blue tip wont behave like black tip glazer , and the rare white tip is different yet . IMHO if you know for a fact you will need to use your pistol on a person wearing a t shirt , and live in a typical trailer house , while shooting only obliquely in respect to the walls they are a good choice . If any of the above is uncertain then most likely conventional ammo is better for defense . All that is without going into the entire point of aim / point of impact issue since glazers at least shoot different from any other round , and usually dramatically ( in my experience up to 4" variance at 10 yards ) .

[Schwebel]

Why not get one of those Taurus "Judge" .410 revolvers if you are worried about blowing holes through your neighbors.