Black Talon - Page 2

Black Talon

This is a discussion on Black Talon within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; tvsjr.....I think your right about the court. I remember when I was younger reading the same opinion on Colt Python. The lawyer's argument was so ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38

Thread: Black Talon

  1. #16
    New Member Array surjimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    12
    tvsjr.....I think your right about the court. I remember when I was younger reading the same opinion on Colt Python. The lawyer's argument was so a regular gun was'nt enough you had to have a COLT PYTHON. Like that makes it a better killer Names I guess are everything. Thanks guys for your input, look foward to hearing more.


  2. #17
    Member Array mountainhound100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by tvsjr View Post
    Yep... in the court of public opinion, "Speer Gold Dot" or something like that will go down a whole lot better than "Black Talon" or "Ranger Super-Expanding Technology, for Law Enforcement Only".
    Of course a good defense attourney could always come back with. "Why would my client be expected to carry anything but the best self-defense round. If it is good enough for the police, it is good enough for you and me." And of course, the label "law enforcement ammunition" is merely Winchester only. It is not illegal for anyone to own, carry or shoot with this ammo. It is just them being overly protective after the BT got such a bad rap.

    All in all, if you shot someone with a slingshot a prosecutor is going to tell the jury that you intentionally searched for the most sinister looking rock, one that you thought would cause the most damage and even kill the person who was attacking you. Quite frankly I would rather go with the old saying that it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. That is why I carry either Ranger T or Gold dots. They have been proven both in testing and in real life to be at the upper end of the spectrum when it comes to "stopping" a threat, which is what they are designed to do.

    be safe
    chad
    A violent crime happens every 23.1 seconds..... something to think about.

  3. #18
    New Member Array surjimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    12
    I carry GD 200gr +p in my SA. If you DRT them less paper work and only 1 statment.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Posts
    1,376
    Good defense attorneys say alot of good things. Do this test (I actually did it today). Walk up to folks you know who are not gun folks and ask them to give you their first feeling (positive or negative) to two names.
    Name one (use it first) "Federal Personal Defense"
    Name two (ask next) "Black Tallon"

    Out of the ninteen folks I asked today (four were fellow LEOs who work investigations at local agencies and are not gun types, only carry when the "must"). Of the ninteen, seventeen had a positive reaction to the first name and all had a negative reaction to Black Talon. Ten of them even cringed when they heard the name and two of the four investigators thought they were "illegal" to carry loaded in a firearm (their not) and one non-LEO thought it was illegal to own them.

    The point is, defense attorneys say alot of good things, but the last thing I want a jury to have after my years of watching them in action, is anything that makes their gut go rrrrrrrrrrrr.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    washington
    Posts
    4,849
    The best defence for carrying Ranger -T is that it doesn't over penetrate as other ammo does. By using this ammo one is less likely to injure an innocent person that may be behind the BG and not seen by you.

  6. #21
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Staunton, Va.
    Posts
    307
    Quote Originally Posted by surjimmy View Post
    I carry GD 200gr +p in my SA. If you DRT them less paper work and only 1 statment.
    You still have the statement from the forensics analysis to contend with. It had still better be a good shoot. ;)

    Randy

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by surjimmy View Post
    Names I guess are everything.
    And so we'll be looking to market "Trojan UltraGlide 9mm- For Our Mutual Protection" in the near future. Use what you find to be the most reliable. There is little difference in most modern HPs in the same price/weight bracket.

    If your incident is "good", and 1) you didn't PO the investigating officers, 2) the chief isn't an anti, with higher political aspirations, or 3) same with the DA, it may still be expensive, but survivable.

  8. #23
    New Member Array surjimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    12
    A good shoot is a give me, I would never shoot unless it was in defence and a GS. I am on the same page as fed wif a sig in todays world a misconceived name could make a big difference of your butt being in a sling or walking away, if it's a good shoot or not.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array craze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    501
    Winchester had the name and marketing all wrong for the Black Tallon.
    They should have instead developed a bright yellow coating for the bullet. They could have reffered to the expanded round as a "blossom with pettals" They could have called their new line of ammo "Flower Power!"
    "Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by tvsjr View Post
    Yep... in the court of public opinion, "Speer Gold Dot" or something like that will go down a whole lot better than "Black Talon" or "Ranger Super-Expanding Technology, for Law Enforcement Only".
    Yeah, when I saw the box picture in an early post, I thought to myself that it could be very bad in court with an anti-self-defense DA parading around with a box that says "LAW ENFORCEMENT" on it.

    "Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. PJ fancied himself a 'freelance law enforcement officer' and he went out that night knowing that he wanted to shoot someone with his highly lethal 'law enforcement' ammunition. He was far outside his right as a citizen; he was trying to act as a cop." You KNOW that's what they'd do.

  11. #26
    Member Array mountainhound100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Yeah, when I saw the box picture in an early post, I thought to myself that it could be very bad in court with an anti-self-defense DA parading around with a box that says "LAW ENFORCEMENT" on it.

    "Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. PJ fancied himself a 'freelance law enforcement officer' and he went out that night knowing that he wanted to shoot someone with his highly lethal 'law enforcement' ammunition. He was far outside his right as a citizen; he was trying to act as a cop." You KNOW that's what they'd do.
    If you run into a prosecutor like that, it's not going to matter what type of ammo you are carrying, they are still going to try and present you as a "freelance law enforcement officer" as you say, if you are carrying a firearm. It could be loaded with blanks and you just shot to scare the guy and they can still turn it against you. Like I mentioned before, you could have a slingshot and they will still try to turn it against you. If I am not mistaken, lots of PDs that use Speer GD. Does that mean that I shouldn't carry those either. As a matter of fact, I'm sure that there are some underfunded PDs somewhere that might even use WM Whitebox HPs, so I had better not go to the range with those either. I agree with the fact that there are a lot of people, especially those who are not gun folks, who get hung up on the label.



    You know, I found a marshmallow gun at walmart the other day. Maybe I should start carrying that as my CCW. My luck, the BG would be diabetic and I would send his blood sugar up and kill him. The prosecutor would then say that I was on a mission to rid the world of all the fat a$$e$ out there and used "deadly" extra large marshmallows as ammunition with the intent to kill. ;)

    If a shooting is justified, then it is justified. Prosecutors put their spin on the words regardless. Whatever type of ammo you use will be the "most deadly" out there. You will always have the "intent to kill." In most CRIMINAL cases, the ammo is irrelevant. It is the CIVIL cases when things like that get brought up. However, many states are now passing or have already passed laws that reflect the "Castle Doctrine" where my home is my castle, etc. They say that if anyone enters your home ILLEGALLY you have the right to shoot, and kill them, without the fear of prosecution in a civil case. Your "home" is where you are currently residing including your house, car, motel room, camper, tent etc.

    Point being, shoot what works in your gun and what makes you feel safe carrying. If that is a NAA 22 mag okay. If it is a S&W 500 with a 650 gr JHP fine. Shoot to STOP the threat and not injure bystanders.
    A violent crime happens every 23.1 seconds..... something to think about.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    OBX, NC
    Posts
    2,655
    No matter what, it is better to be alive and in deep doo-doo instead of being buried 6' deep!
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  13. #28
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Staunton, Va.
    Posts
    307
    Mr. PJ fancied himself a 'freelance law enforcement officer' and he went out that night knowing that he wanted to shoot someone with his highly lethal 'law enforcement' ammunition.
    So you are saying that cops just want to kill people too? ;)

    Randy

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Coral Gables, FL
    Posts
    5,802

    YUP

    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig View Post
    I'd sure hate to be the person who used Black Talons for a shooting. There is just enough histeria remembered over that name that some reputation hungry ADA just might decide to give it a shot just on the name alone theory. Not saying it was or is a bad round, just that there are plenty of other rounds as good or better without the negative association. Last I heard the IALEFI did a survey and found no agency that issued or approved the Black Talon round, and had found a some (stupid chiefs IMO) who had banned it from carry.

    Just my 2 cents.
    I cobbled together about 400rds of the original Black Talon in 45ACP 230gr and it continues to sit in my emergency (SHTF) ammo stores for EXACTLY that reason. I bought it over a long period of time, 20rds at a time about $20-$25 a box. I'll never carry it as a primary load.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #30
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,925
    Serioiusly...I think yall worry too much.

    If its a good killin...then its a good killin.

    Whether you did it with a superwhamodyneamourpiercingnucleargradeheartseekin g bullet, a ball pein hammer or a fork shouldnt make any difference.

    If it has been banned by some educated idiot in your locality, then dont use it. Otherwise, it would be a shame to own some and fear using it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Winchester Black Talon?
    By Kenny256 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: August 11th, 2010, 05:39 PM
  2. Black talon 9mm question
    By Impulse138 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: December 25th, 2009, 09:51 PM
  3. Black Talon/STX
    By ASSA9 in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 1st, 2009, 09:58 AM
  4. Win Black Talon
    By mmasteve in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: July 15th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Search tags for this page

are black talon bullets illegal in florida
,

are black talon bullets legal in florida

,
are black talons bullets illegal in florida
,

are black talons illegal in florida

,
are black talons legal in florida
,

black talon ammo illegal

,
black talon ammo legal in north carolina
,
black talon legal in florida
,
can i use black tallon ammo in my ccw
,
is black talon ammo legal in north carolina
,
is it illegal to have black talon rounds in florida?
,
is it legal in fl to have black talons
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors