Black Talon

Black Talon

This is a discussion on Black Talon within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is the Ranger T the same as the old Black Tallon, would this be a good defence round for a Springfield NM. in a 200 ...

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Thread: Black Talon

  1. #1
    New Member Array surjimmy's Avatar
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    Black Talon

    Is the Ranger T the same as the old Black Tallon, would this be a good defence round for a Springfield NM. in a 200 or 230gr? Thanks for your input, this is my first post on this web site.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    I do believe that is correct.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    It is technically not the same. it is its direct descendent. The Ranger T is about 2 generations newer and performs better.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    as said close but not the same the ranger T is newer and better

  5. #5
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    Welcome...

    from Central Florida!

    I use the 230gr. Black Talon in my Glock 36...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  6. #6
    Member Array Schwebel's Avatar
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    I remember the old media frenzy when Black Talons became popular. The media made them seem that they were more powerful than a neutron bomb. Here's a Wikipedia link for the evil Black Talonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_talon.

  7. #7
    Member Array myusername's Avatar
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    There is a pic floating around somewhere with and expanded ranger T and an expanded Black Talon. The Ranger's talons aren't as long and don't stick out as far IIRC.

    In some tests I think the talons were thought to cut down on penetration so maybe the smaller ones allow them to go deeper.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I like the .45 230g Ranger-T +P. It shoots accurately and feeds reliably. Current production is about the 3rd generation of this bullet, and probably the best yet. For pix of expanded bullets and expansion and penetration data:

    http://www.winchester.com/lawenforce...win_flash.html
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  9. #9
    Member Array mountainhound100's Avatar
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    I use the 180gr Ranger T. I think it is about the 3rd gen for this projectile. It's more PC without the "deadly" lubalox coating on the jacket. Interestingly enough, the Winchester Supreme ammo in 7mm Rem Mag that I hunt with still has this "deadly" coating.

    Anyway, here is a pic of the newest stuff. There was a release in between that was labeled the Ranger SXT, which some rumored to say stood for "Same eXact Thing," but I believe Winchester labeled it as Supreme eXpansion Technology. If you can get your hands on some of it, go for it. It shoots great IMO.

    chad



    A violent crime happens every 23.1 seconds..... something to think about.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I'd sure hate to be the person who used Black Talons for a shooting. There is just enough histeria remembered over that name that some reputation hungry ADA just might decide to give it a shot just on the name alone theory. Not saying it was or is a bad round, just that there are plenty of other rounds as good or better without the negative association. Last I heard the IALEFI did a survey and found no agency that issued or approved the Black Talon round, and had found a some (stupid chiefs IMO) who had banned it from carry.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Fed,
    Are you referring to the OLD black tallon of the early 1990s or the new Ranger ?

    I've got some old BT stashed but would never carry it - kind of a limited supply to verify function!
    New Ranger though, $18 for 50 rounds.....

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I would expect the original Black Talon ammo would have some collector value. Even if not, I would just keep it unfired - it is an interesting item of shooting history.

    The new stuff is even better, and much more PC since it isn't black.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    I was refering to the origional ammo that is labeled "Black Talon". The Ranger though similar is different (and better) and from what I hear is a fine carry ammo. The only issue I have with the Black Talon is that a person risk being guilty of name association.

    Any one carrying or thinking of carrying Black Talon ammo, should do a Google search and see what is the first link that poped up (atleast for me tonight) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon

    I (unfortunatly) know a few ADAs who would love nothing better than to do a press confrence saying that they are prosecuting a "Black Talon shooter" for manslaughter. Why manslaughter? Simple answer (scary but they do think this way).
    #1. Manslaughter is easier for jury to bite than a murder charge.
    #2. Manslaughter actually captures more attention in the press.
    #3. Most people (real honest people who care) pay less attention to a news story about manslaughter than they do murder.

    Be safe and have fun,
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Fed, agreed, thanks for the clarification.

    personal defense ammo has come far in the last 30 years, and it's been 15 since BT has been available... I'm sure anything new feeds better and expands better.

    Honestly, I'd take my chances carrying KTW or Velet over Black Talon. "KT-What? Vel-who? Never hearda them" Heh I went looking for my BT and found some other oddball ammo including KTW and Velet :) I've got to bring the cam home someday and
    grab some pics for the new guys.

  15. #15
    Member Array tvsjr's Avatar
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    Yep... in the court of public opinion, "Speer Gold Dot" or something like that will go down a whole lot better than "Black Talon" or "Ranger Super-Expanding Technology, for Law Enforcement Only".

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