Ammo recommendations?

Ammo recommendations?

This is a discussion on Ammo recommendations? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I keep a 357 loaded with 38 cal rounds (so my wife is comfortable with it) by the bed at night for protection. We have ...

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Thread: Ammo recommendations?

  1. #1
    Member Array fishmaycraft's Avatar
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    Question Ammo recommendations?

    I keep a 357 loaded with 38 cal rounds (so my wife is comfortable with it) by the bed at night for protection. We have a daughter that is two thin walls away, what kind of ammo do you suggest that has stopping power but is not likely to go through the walls and hurt my baby?

    Thanks for any help,

    FMC


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    IMO, any pistol round that has sufficient penetration to stop a BG isn't going to stop before going through four sheets of drywall. There are some frangible or prefragmented rounds that won't go through many walls, but none of them really have the penetration in flesh to get to an assailant's vitals. Take a look at some of the tests over at The Box O' Truth. Nothing they've tested that's going to penetrate deeply enough into the BG (10-12 inches) is going to be stopped by anything less than 8-10 sheets of drywall.
    Last edited by Blackeagle; May 8th, 2007 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    nothing that out there that is stopped by 2 thin sheets of sheetrock will do you any good in self defense just my 2 cents

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    FMC,

    I too have a daughter two sheet rock walls away, between my room and the stairs comming up into the 2nd floor. The only round I know that I have tested on our range, is the Glasser "Blue" Safety Slug. These rounds were designed for indoor shooting and will travel less in walls than standard JHPs.

    In fact, handgun rounds are worse in homes that 223 JHP or TAP ammo. I know alot of folks who dont actually test or have shoot rounds in homes, but THAT is the reason most tactical units have switched from the H&K MP5 (in 9mm, 40 or 10mm) to a .223 with TAP type ammo. test after test shows that handgun JHP ammo continuly fills up the hallow point with dry wall and turns into a ball round. Glasser wont by the way.

    The BIGGEST piece of advice I can give you is this, GO LOW. This takes you training yourself to intentionally lower your shooting platform so that your aiming up at the BG. This will make any rounds that miss go into your attic (in an appartment it will go into a concrete floor) which is stuffed with alot a things to stop bullets, including your roof, LOL. This does two things, it keeps your rounds from going strait (your feer is valid, as I know another SWAT officer who was shot by a team member through a wall. They were in seperate rooms and one operator engaged an armed suspect and a round from his 9mm H&K MP5 (SD) went through the dry wall and into the upper leg of the 2nd operator in the next room down the hall.

    By going low and aiming hi, you avoid this and also most BGs dont look for folks low, the look strait ahead. Its why when doing a criss-cross entry, I made sure I was low man, and let the mongo's behind me come in standing (see pic attached).

    Only other thing I'll say is make sure you have a light either ON or WITH your home defense weapon. Never go into the dark to protect your home without a light.
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    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Furniture

    Count me as a big fan of the Box o Truth, too. Perhaps there's some way to arrange some heavy furniture like a bookcase or a gun safe or something along your lines of fire. The safe area in my bedroom is a large walk in closet with a gun safe in it. My bed frame is a solid wood box. There is a large, full bookcase against the wall. All these are between me and the rest of the house. Maybe you could add something like that. Anything that might make a Glaser or Mag-Safe break up earlier could help. Plan B...Once ordered and installed a level II "Bomb Blanket" for a customer who had a baby on the way and owned a split-plan home. He armored the walls the child's room with it where it faced the rest of the house. It was not cheap. http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic-Blankets.shtml

  6. #6
    Member Array fishmaycraft's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice, a buddy of mine was saying get the shotgun pellet type of pistol ammo but I didn't know if that would stop or just spread and still go through

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Birdshot

    Birdshot from a pistol, generally considered bad. Not enough of it for mass, not enough penetration for stopping power in "snake shot" loads. See: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/defaul...u=1&s1=4&s2=21
    and:http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot30.htm

    The old owner of the gunshop where I "work" has one of the CCI shotshells as the first round in his 5 shot J frame. His theory is to fire it off to cause confusion and a loss of morale downrange, giving him time to squeeze off the other 4. He has never tested his theory in actual combat, I do not agree with his choice for defense against people. That said, I have a .22magnum on my bicycle, and the first round is a shotshell for discouraging dogs, my theory is it will let me hit and discourage without much need for fine aim from a moving platform. Different sides of the same coin, perhaps.

    Speaking of that coin, however, the B O T does not advocate the use of birdshot from large shotguns for home defense either. I disagree based on seeing two shootings, one with 71/2 shot, one with 8. Both were close range shootings (within 12 or 15 feet) and both were rapidly and definitavely fatal. I was working as an EMT at the time. Two shootings is admittedly a limited amount, but they are the only two such shotgun shootings I have seen with that ammo. I myself was shot with #4 buckshot, hit 9 times, and was relatively unaffected. The range was much longer, perhaps 15 or 20 yards. After all that, I can't say that birdshot is better than #4 buck, too limited of experience. (I did see one contact range suicide with 7 1/2 shot, but that doesn't count, any load would have worked on that one) If all the pellets hit as one lump, it's obviously more effective, thus the importance of range and being close.
    I do think that there is probably a birdshot size that offers the best of both worlds as far as low penetration with effective "on target" performance. Many seem to think it is somewhere around #6 or #5 birdshot. Some as big as #4 bird or #2 bird or the BB or T duck hunter stuff. (Jeopardy gun trivia, subtract the shot size from .17 to get the size of the pellet in inches) I have a box of the old Federal Home Defense #2 birdshot loads somewhere, and a box or two of Remington Duplex 6x2 shot too. For a long time, my low penetration HD load was simple #6 hi-brass in 20ga, and I never felt under armed. Small apartment load in college. Back then I had some old street signs (who put those there?) to slow down the shot as well as decorate the place. If I had low penetration needs tomorrow, I'd start there again, and test Federal's new Flite Control wad loads. Magic in the buck version. One hole patterns at 60 feet from a riotgun. The buck load is PFC154. A good birdshot load might be PFC156:
    http://www.federalpremium.com/ballis...firearm=5&s1=1
    Sorry for the long post. Long night at a quiet station. We're waiting for the next big brushfire (or next rainstorm) and I'm occasionally an insomniac. Best of luck to you.

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