alternating hp and fmj in the magazine

This is a discussion on alternating hp and fmj in the magazine within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; some leo's here in my hometown gave me the idea that for their own carry off duty they carry in their magazines either or in ...

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Thread: alternating hp and fmj in the magazine

  1. #1
    Member Array coronel's Avatar
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    alternating hp and fmj in the magazine

    some leo's here in my hometown gave me the idea that for their own carry off duty they carry in their magazines either or in which ever order first hollow point then fmj-hollow point then fmj etc. in the magazine. What do you all think of this idea I would like some input from you all if possible thank you

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    My vote is to carry a quality HP that is proven in your personal gun . FMJ will add nothing to your defense , and may in fact add liability due to over penetration . I wont comment on any " officer " who does this other than to say that it is against policy for every agency that has a firearms policy for a good reason .
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    +1 Redneck!
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    Member Array Sam Douthit's Avatar
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    Maybe the LEO has an idea that they need the extra penetration in a firefight where vehicles might be involved. Anyway for self protection some good comercial hollowpoints like Carbon will do the job and are not as likely to riccochet or over penetrate walls and doors in your house. You are likely shooting at the bad guys and you don't want collateral damage.
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    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    I have never understood the logic behind alternating ammo in a magazine. If the HP round doesn't expand, you have essentially a FMJ round anyway.

    To be effective against a threat, the ammo must have the ability to penetrate the threat. The "critical areas" are deep within the body.

    "Overpenetration", with handgun ammo, is largely a myth. On a side note, I am looking for any data on actual shootings where a good HCOM hit passed through and hit someone else. Much more dangerous are the rounds that don't hit the threat at all. In LE shootings, this amounts to about 83% of all rounds fired.

    Randy

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    l Agree with the rest... My only thought would be that if you are worried about needing deeper penetration into a vehicle or some sort of barricade, use a long arm. If you want some FMJ handgun loads... carry a spare magazine loaded with nothing but the FMJ you could use for a specific purpose.

    To alternate hollow points and FMJ in the same magazine seems dangerous from a liability stand point.

    Keep magazines loaded with bullets of the same kind.
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    All the training/reading I have done says NOT to do this. One is the over penetration factor mentioned by others. Two is you want every round to act the same way, a FMJ and HP may (or most probably will) have different POI's for the same POA.....

    If you are really worried about needing a FMJ for penetration - carry 2 spare mags, one with FMJ and one with HP....but make sure you PRACTICE getting the mag on a reload.....

  9. #8
    Member Array docsludge's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Redneck, our local Leo'd only carry HP, and it has to be department approved HP. Even off duty they are supposed to use HP, all because of liability reasons.

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    I would stay away from anything outside the NORM. SD HP's are the Norm. a Good HP supercedes any FMJ. Going to court afterwords and haveing to explain that to 12 peer members may be a little challenging.
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  11. #10
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    As said, better to use HP's .
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  12. #11
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with it other than people's personal preference.

    The differences in POA/POI between the two is a non-issue at SD ranges.

    A 230gr FMJ will get in the neighborhood of 14-16 inches, and it is arguable as to whether it will still have the velocity needed to do anything productive by the time it gets to that second person. No empirical data exists to suggest that it is a real concern.
    If you're worried about overpenetration through walls, then perhaps you should have hit your target instead.

    Alternating rounds is not "dangerous from a liability standpoint"..
    The main problem is that most LE agencies still believe in the myths of "stopping power" and "overpenetration" in addition to their administrators being so liability-sensitive that it's surprising that they're actually still allowed to carry firearms.

    Again, it's really personal preference. Doing so doesn't give you any huge advantage, but neither does not alternating. Anyone who tells you that it's a BAD idea probably won't be able to point to anything concrete to support that view, unless they're an LEO and says it's against policy.

    If you want to make a more informed decision, learn more about terminal ballistics and come to your own conclusion.

  13. #12
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    Carry what functions best in your gun

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    The only people I know who do this regularly are some of the PSD contractors in Iraq. They face a lot of vehicle to vehicle engagements, and some feel that the FMJ might give them an advantage... I can't argue with them, but I don't carry that way, even over there.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    I wont comment on any " officer " who does this other than to say that it is against policy for every agency that has a firearms policy for a good reason .
    Actually it is standard procedure for my S.O. to carry an extra mag loaded with FMJ.

    We use both Ranger XST and Win. FMJ as issue ammo. While we dont mix it in the mags, we do have both in our gear bag.

    While I can see using it on a vehicle, unless one is a cop it would be hard to justify shooting at a fleeing vehicle.
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    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    While I can see using it on a vehicle, unless one is a cop it would be hard to justify shooting at a fleeing vehicle.
    From what I understand, often not easy for even a LEO to justify shooting the fleeing vehicle as well.

    All I can say is that if you are using 32s you pretty much have a perfect setup for rimlock. Anything wiser folks than me have already spoken.
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