Flash Bangs

This is a discussion on Flash Bangs within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS Killing is my last option and a flashbang sounds like it will do the job so i can successfully disarm them ...

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Thread: Flash Bangs

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Kidding, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    Killing is my last option and a flashbang sounds like it will do the job so i can successfully disarm them without killing them because if I use my moss with 00 shot they will be dead, but then again if they're in my house and I shoot the flash bang and they have guns and get disorientated, would it still be self defense by killing them? That seems like a tough call to me.
    You've GOT to be kidding us, right? Maybe you've been watching the Chuck Norris marathons? The way I see it, if somebody has entered your home and knows that you in fact ARE home, he's prepared to "deal" with you and do harm to your family.

    That requires your utmost attention and deadliest intentions. No time to screw around. I've used a cousin to the flash-bang grenade: The artillery and grenade simulator is fused (burn down) and they work under water. IIRC the arty-sim was a half stick of dynamite and the grenade-sim was a quarter stick of dynamite. Either one will ring your bell if they go off nearby.

    I once ummmmm "heard about" an arty sim being tossed into the ground floor living room of a fraternity that was "unfriendly" to campus Army ROTC. The shot blew out every window on the ground floor. Then a smoke grenade was lobbed in followed moments later by a CS grenade. The gas mingled with the smoke and those "Frat-Rats" never knew what was hitting them until it was too late. They boiled out the front and back doors like angry hornets. They were all rubbing their eyes. I tried....ummmm....... I mean I HEARD that some bystanders tried to tell them that rubbing the eyes only worsens the gas effects by a factor of ten.

    But the best was when (so I HEARD) the gas filetered upstairs and a bunch of scantily clad sororitiy girls squealed into the night air. Can you imagine the pain of that gas hitting some VERY tender areas???? Well, of course, I wasn't there....but I HEARD it was quite....amusing......

    The point is that when a flash Bang or variant detonates, there are often ancilliary effects that you can't control. Far better for you to focus on the specific threat and take it out by rendering it unable to deal in violence further. This MAY require a firearm but it also requires a cool head and some calm nerves. Tactics is what will win the day.....not less than lethal equipment.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    You're basically proposing going up against a home invader with an overpowered blank in the tube. If he has a gun, there's a very good chance that he'll end up with his ears ringing and you'll end up dead. If you choose to do things this way, it implies that you think the intruder's life is more important than your life and the lives of your family members.
    Last edited by Blackeagle; May 27th, 2007 at 01:20 AM.

  4. #18
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    The two post above pretty much explained what I was getting at.
    Do you honestly think that the crack head breaking into your home has those same feelings? He knows you are home and if confronted he is going to do what ever he needs to do to accomplish his objective, you should have the EXACT same attitude towards him. If he has such disregard for you and your family to come into your home and pose the threat of doing harm you should show NO mercy in defending yourself and your family.
    If you have ever been in the same house, let alone the same room, as a bang going off you know that it is an extremely disorienting experience and a horrible idea for your home defense. On top of that usually the shoulder fired ones have to travel a certain distance so unless you live in a large mansion it would be pointless. If you do live in a mansion big enough for them to travel the designed distance then I suggest you hire someone to protect your grounds.
    Pierce

    "Fear is what keeps you alive but panic is what kills you" - Leo

    "At contact distances, if you can't shoot him, hit him...Nothing says 'TAP' can't be accomplished by smashing the magazine into his face." - Gomez

    TRAMPLE THE WEAK AND HURDLE THE DEAD

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    You're basically proposing going up against a home invader with an overpowered blank in the tube. If he has a gun, there's a very good chance that he'll end up with his ears ringing and you'll end up dead. If you choose to do things this way, it implies that you think the intruder's life is more important than your life and the lives of your family members.

    Of course their not but your advocating I should shoot someone when there are other options like flash bangs or mace or tasers that will work. What will you do if a unarmed guy on meth breaks in your home thinking your not there? Are you going to shoot him? Are you going to point your gun at him and say stop or ill shoot? He wont care he's on drugs and he's unarmed. A flash bang or something non lethal but powerful will stop those type of people, do you understand now.

  6. #20
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    Ezdynamics none of the "less than lethal" options you listed above have even close to the stop percentage of a gun. Tazers are a one shot deal, mace can be fought through, and flashbangs will mess you up as bad as they mess up the intruder. Infact if the intruder is on drugs it will probably do more damage to you than him.

    If somone who I believe is armed breaks into my apartment I will "shoot to stop" them with no warning. If an unarmed intruder comes in I MAY give a verbal warning to stop. If the intruder does not stop I will again stop the threat.

    You are either justified in ending the threat, which may very well result in someones death, or you are not justified in shooting. There is no middle ground.

    Also regarding the cruiser grip; 12 Gauge shotguns have a significant amount of recoil. As such cruiser type grips make the gun difficult to handle in recoil. If you really want a compact pistol grip shotgun you should look into those over-folding stocks.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    Of course their not but your advocating I should shoot someone when there are other options like flash bangs or mace or tasers that will work.
    The problem is, they don't always work. Flashbangs (the real ones that are restricted to military and SWAT) only incapacitate for a few seconds. Pepper spray has very little effect on some people (particularly those who are on drugs or have experience with it). Tasers are single shot weapons that aren't effective if you don't get both darts into the target. Using any of these things against an armed opponent is highly risky, because if they don't work, they're an invitation for him to kill you.

    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    What will you do if a unarmed guy on meth breaks in your home thinking your not there?
    Back on the first page, you were explicitly talking about using these against armed home intruders:

    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    Killing is my last option and a flashbang sounds like it will do the job so i can successfully disarm them without killing them because if I use my moss with 00 shot they will be dead, but then again if they're in my house and I shoot the flash bang and they have guns and get disorientated, would it still be self defense by killing them? That seems like a tough call to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    Are you going to shoot him?
    YES!

    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    A flash bang or something non lethal but powerful will stop those type of people, do you understand now.
    A less than lethal weapon may stop him, but if it doesn't work (which is fairly likely) there is a very good chance you'll end up dead.

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array EZDYNAMICS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kommander View Post
    Ezdynamics none of the "less than lethal" options you listed above have even close to the stop percentage of a gun. Tazers are a one shot deal, mace can be fought through, and flashbangs will mess you up as bad as they mess up the intruder. Infact if the intruder is on drugs it will probably do more damage to you than him.

    If somone who I believe is armed breaks into my apartment I will "shoot to stop" them with no warning. If an unarmed intruder comes in I MAY give a verbal warning to stop. If the intruder does not stop I will again stop the threat.

    You are either justified in ending the threat, which may very well result in someones death, or you are not justified in shooting. There is no middle ground.

    Also regarding the cruiser grip; 12 Gauge shotguns have a significant amount of recoil. As such cruiser type grips make the gun difficult to handle in recoil. If you really want a compact pistol grip shotgun you should look into those over-folding stocks.

    Mine has a folding stock and a tac light but i did not really wanna give those details to brag but i see your point but you cannot shoot a unarmed man with a shotgun unless your a good shot and you might be looking at a civil suit and other things.

  9. #23
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    EZDY, before you reach any conclussions and set in stone any tactics you may use "in case of" go ahead and purchase the flashbangs and shoot them in a controlled enviroment that replicates having to use them in real life: No eye protection, no ear protection, darkness and closed room. After detonation, if you can asses threat and respond to it under 2 seconds (and that might be generous), God Bless and stick to your guns.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  10. #24
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    I used the "Cracker Shell" variety for scaring Geese and coons,got them at the feed store.I don't know if they would be good for HD...the fuse is lit when you fire the round...so there is a delay in the Loud Bang...plus the shoot about 50 yards or so..(it is a m-80 in a 12 gauge shotshell)...but man o man arer they loud!

  11. #25
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    The KEY; The history/use is stated ANIMAL CONTROL.
    If unathorized personel/BG (with weapons) enters my home I have to reflect: are they here to---1). Have a cup of coffee. 2). Bake a pie. 3). Watch the History Channel. Check you local laws, we are all in this together and our actions define us.

  12. #26
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    Ezdynamics I am not a lawyer so of course my advise is what you paid for it. That being said if you confront an unarmed person in your house in the state of AZ you are allowed to use the threat of deadly force to make them leave IE point a gun at them.

    So now lets say your at that point and the Bad Guy keeps advancing on you. What do you do? You shoot him. Why? Because there is only one reason for an unarmed man to advance upon an armed man and that is if the unarmed man thinks he can take the gun from the armed man. That is why this is a shoot situation. What do you think the fellow is going to do when he makes physical contact with you after you've got a gun on him? Give you a hug?

  13. #27
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    BINGO.

  14. #28
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    OK I deleted one Off Topic comment and the reply to that Off Topic.
    Try to stay on topic and please refrain from making comments that are derogatory or personal.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  15. #29
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    "Are you going to point your gun at him and say stop or ill shoot? He wont care he's on drugs and he's unarmed. A flash bang or something non lethal but powerful will stop those type of people, do you understand now."

    How do you know that it will "stop those type of people?" Have you ever dealt with a meth head who is on a "bad trip?" i have, lots of them. Some meth heads would charge you, take your whiz bang loaded gun from you and stuff it up your butt.

  16. #30
    Member Array Teak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EZDYNAMICS View Post
    Of course their not but your advocating I should shoot someone when there are other options like flash bangs or mace or tasers that will work. What will you do if a unarmed guy on meth breaks in your home thinking your not there? Are you going to shoot him? Are you going to point your gun at him and say stop or ill shoot? He wont care he's on drugs and he's unarmed. A flash bang or something non lethal but powerful will stop those type of people, do you understand now.
    Here is the thing neither flash bang, taser, and or oc is going to stop someone hopped on on meth, crack or god knows what else. You are going to be lucky if a firearm stops some of those people. I have seen 125lb guys hopped up on meth go up agains six full size officers and it took every single one of them to subdue him. Do you want something like that running rampant in your home?
    All in all, the bangs are a bad idea and I would consider something else.
    Pierce

    "Fear is what keeps you alive but panic is what kills you" - Leo

    "At contact distances, if you can't shoot him, hit him...Nothing says 'TAP' can't be accomplished by smashing the magazine into his face." - Gomez

    TRAMPLE THE WEAK AND HURDLE THE DEAD

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