Stopping Power Numbers

This is a discussion on Stopping Power Numbers within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Don't know if this has been posted before or if anyone has seen this but check out the following for info on "stopping power". http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Stopping Power Numbers

  1. #1
    New Member Array taogoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7

    Post Stopping Power Numbers

    Don't know if this has been posted before or if anyone has seen this but check out the following for info on "stopping power".
    http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array nn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    7,119
    Numbers seem higher than forum scuttlebutt has it.

  4. #3
    New Member Array taogoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    Numbers seem higher than forum scuttlebutt has it.
    I don't know where they get the numbers from I just know that they are there. I encourage anyone looking at this to use it as maybe a base for further research.

  5. #4
    Member Array lexington86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by taogoat View Post
    I don't know where they get the numbers from I just know that they are there. I encourage anyone looking at this to use it as maybe a base for further research.
    Says right on the site where the numbers come from:
    Diameter and Penetration are the average from bullets recovered in actual shootings. All data taken from Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's book: Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition and used with permission from the author.
    ~Lex

    "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."
    - Pennsylvania Constitution, Section 21

    Dramatic Hamster (my avatar)

  6. #5
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Quote Originally Posted by taogoat View Post
    I don't know where they get the numbers from I just know that they are there. I encourage anyone looking at this to use it as maybe a base for further research.

    Diameter and Penetration are the average from bullets recovered in actual shootings. All data taken from Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's book: Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition and used with permission from the author.


    While data from the above book has been questioned and brow beat... I would like to point out, what database hasn't been. (and in the world of ballistics, Nothing is 100%)

    Both Evan and Ed are respected and honorable gun people. I have read Evan Marshall's writings for close to three decades now. I do know the criteria for their database met a plethora of standards and requirements for the shooting incidents to even be considered.

    I take their info with a fair amount of weight and a starting point. I still make my own decisions, but I don't discount their work outright either.

    I think it has validity and is an honest effort to attempt gathering imperical data on a topic that had never actually been done before to the extent that they have attempted to do.

    JMHO.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #6
    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    443
    This data seems nice to know but for me there are some unanswered questions like;
    What do they consider stopped unable to continue, or did they get hit in the leg and give up?

    Were they stop instantly or did they continue fighting before stopping?

    What are the bullet placements of the 1 shots vs the non 1 shots, where the shots all COM and some didn't stop because they chose not to go down and keep fighting?

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ky Backwoods
    Posts
    3,812
    Yep. all very valid questions. But I DO like the numbers on my 124 gr.357 Sig! KAAA-POW!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    OBX, NC
    Posts
    2,655
    Even if you are using a gun/cartridge/bullet combo that gives a 99.9% rating, practice for the .1%.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NOVA...200 square miles surrounded by reality
    Posts
    2,922
    If i remember correctly his criteria that he used to constitute a stop.

    1.) Torso hits ONLY count (this disqualifies anything to the head)
    2.) Multiple hits do not count
    3.) A stop is when the person who was hit falls down immediately
    4.) or a person is hit and then quits the aggression
    5.) or a person is hit runs 10 feet and falls to the ground.

    Now I did read the 2nd edition book he wrote. I think hes up to the 3rd now. I also read it about 3 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotammo View Post
    This data seems nice to know but for me there are some unanswered questions like;
    What do they consider stopped unable to continue, or did they get hit in the leg and give up?

    Were they stop instantly or did they continue fighting before stopping?

    What are the bullet placements of the 1 shots vs the non 1 shots, where the shots all COM and some didn't stop because they chose not to go down and keep fighting?
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,292
    .22lr has a much better record than I expected.

    From comparing most of the numbers from different calibers, it seems to suggest that about 75-80% of people who get shot, not mater what they get shot with, are out of the fight.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  12. #11
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Please don't forget that data of this type is always going to have some level of subjectiveness....

    For example, it can never take into account the "mindset" of the attacker!

    If an attacker ceased hostilities after one hit to the torso, it is considered a "Stop", even if the attacker "could have" continued but decided to stop because his "desire" was no longer in it to carry on.

    So it would still be considered a "valid" one-shot stop... and rightfully so.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    IMHO handguns have virtually no "stopping power " A handgun simply does not nor can it create a sympathetic cns shutdown. With handguns you get a " stop " in one of 4 ways , You directly disrupt the CNS , you hit an area that bleeds out rapidly, the person you shot behaves like he belives he is shot , or finaly you break a major bone that holds folks up such as a femur . Of all the above options you can more closely bet on a fella deciding " heck i done been shot " and laying down as he believes he should . I know folks who absorbed 00 buck at under 15 yards and fought on , i also know folks who fell down without even a bullet wound ( just spalling that stuck in the skin ) . Now that is just the folks i have met in my lifetime not internet or gun rag reading . Speaking for myself the only time i have been shot was with a .22lr ( impacted the left forearm and did not exit ) and it just made me mad . I was hit one other time with a .357 but the vest took it so i wont count it as a gunshot wound .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  14. #13
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Redneck... I'm not sure of your point there... can you explain what you are talking about with a "sympathetic CNS shutdown?"
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Over here now!
    Posts
    3,617
    Sympathetic and parasympathetic divisions are merely functions and responses of the central nervous system. Read Fight or Flight.

    One shot handgun stopping is possible but not easy. What you shoot does not matter, it is where you hit your target. The chances for a drop is a shot in the cranio ocular cavity (destruction of the medulla will shut down the CNS), along the crevical vertebrae C1 to C4, or possibly the cardiovascular triangle which is Adam's apple to nipples (preferably midline)

    Stopping Power from Wikipedia
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  16. #15
    Member Array RichardB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    15
    R'Neck,

    Evan Marshall has written that no one should enter a gunfight carrying a handgun with any degree of enthusiasm. He also likes the long guns 98% capability.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Do you really have enough stopping power?
    By Sig35seven in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: July 21st, 2010, 09:59 PM
  2. Stopping Power
    By mauser1959 in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 11th, 2010, 07:13 PM
  3. Handgun stopping power
    By ExSoldier in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: January 17th, 2010, 08:46 PM
  4. Stopping Power
    By ErikGr7 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: January 8th, 2009, 01:21 AM
  5. Stopping Power
    By crzy4guns in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: March 31st, 2008, 08:44 PM

Search tags for this page

ed sanow

Click on a term to search for related topics.