.45 cal. 3" barrel bullet blues; 'till I'm blue in the face

.45 cal. 3" barrel bullet blues; 'till I'm blue in the face

This is a discussion on .45 cal. 3" barrel bullet blues; 'till I'm blue in the face within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I thought I was set..my new short barreled .45 1911 was feeding 100% (Rem UMC 230gr JHP ammo from Wallyworld-o). The price was relatively cheap, ...

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Thread: .45 cal. 3" barrel bullet blues; 'till I'm blue in the face

  1. #1
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    .45 cal. 3" barrel bullet blues; 'till I'm blue in the face

    I thought I was set..my new short barreled .45 1911 was feeding 100% (Rem UMC 230gr JHP ammo from Wallyworld-o). The price was relatively cheap, and I thought I'd carry what I practice with..NOT SO SIMPLE. Come to find out, there is NO FLASH RETARDANT in the powder-o. SO, night firing in a home defense-o situation will blind me unless I close my eyes the second I pull the trigger. The bad guy may go blind as well, unless he happens to be looking the utta way. SO, I ordered three sets of personal defense ammo to try out. My Warthog-o loves the Rem JHP's (several types of FED 230 HS's, WIN White, FMJ and JHP all jam).
    I am looking at:
    Corbon DPX 160gr solid copper hollow point: 1050 fps (3"barrel) not a brick, but oh well..12-13" of pentetration-o!
    Speer Gold Dot 230gr Short barrel ammo"4: bonded jacket / flash reducer/ 700 something fps-o(may not expand-o)
    Remington Golden Sabers 230gr JHP nickel case/flash retard-o.. bullet seperates from jacket occasionally..is this really a problem? Hopefully these Golden Sabers will work(much cheaper):750fps(3" barrel) close range may penetrate-o four layers of denim-o..but seriously, any suggestions would be of help..3" barrel owners help! What do you suggest?
    semper fi


  2. #2
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    Use the ball ammo that functions, close one eye if you have to shoot,
    And have a good flashlight for subsequent shots or turn on the lights.

  3. #3
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    Don't see the real problem with Golden Sabres. If the jacket separates it may not retain quite as much bullet weight, but if they run good, use em.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    +1 nn

    Use a light and flash won't matter.

    Of your choices I'd go Gold Dot or Cor Bon.

    Austin

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    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    DPX must not have flash retardant. I can't find anything on their site about DPX flash..the PowerBall Corbon reviews complain of flash problems, and I would assume that DPX has the same..some reviews claim "they are told that DPX uses flash retardant"..hmm..DPX uses Rem cases..If I go with Gold Dots, I'll get the complete package..while still throwing bricks..I hope they feed well..
    semper fi

  6. #6
    Member Array DHart's Avatar
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    "Ultra-" sized 1911's = MAJOR compromise! And for what???? The 3" barrel that seems so "cool" and "desireable" to some buyers happens to involve a HUGE amount of compromise (likelihood of reduced reliability, ultra-short recoil spring life, reduced magazine capacity, and MOST importantly, significant loss of terminal effectiveness.)

    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but 1911's with 3" barrels are the worst possible choice for both the 1911 platform AND for the .45 acp caliber.

    What do I suggest??? Easy. Go with a Commander-sized 1911: 4.25" barrel, conventional 230 gr. JHP ammo will still function with reasonably good terminal ballistics. These guns are very easy to conceal... NO-problemo! Plus, you'll gain significantly enhanced reliability, much longer recoil spring life, improved long distance accuracy potential, relatively good velocity, and be able to use full-capacity 1911 magazines!

    Best yet, have a bobtail job done on it and you'll have the very best carry-1911 there is! With little to no compromise in any department. Bite the bullet. Thank me later. ;-)~

    The clowns in government office see the solution to everything is write more laws, creating the ever-mounting morass of legal handicaps that we citizens must labor under.

    STATE'S RIGHTS RULE and should be INVIOLATE. Feds butt out!

  7. #7
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    "Ultra-" sized 1911's = MAJOR compromise! And for what???? The 3" barrel that seems so "cool" and "desireable" to some buyers happens to involve a HUGE amount of compromise (likelihood of reduced reliability, ultra-short recoil spring life, reduced magazine capacity, and MOST importantly, significant loss of terminal effectiveness.)
    I tend to agree, but..I have to disagree w/ a few of your points:
    likelihood of reduced reliability: We'll see, as I've only fired 350 rounds so far..knock on wood
    ultra-short recoil spring life: No big deal..I already have a backup spring assembly..$25
    reduced magazine capacity: My Wartyhog ten round double stack holds more than your Commander..
    significant loss of terminal effectiveness: Maybe.. with the latest ammo tweaking going on these here days, two of my ammo choices seem to have made up for some of the 3" short falls..plus I have the additional concealment. Believe it or not, you can hide a hog in the most unusual places..btw..pic below is actual size/mag extensions are for wussies..lol


    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but 1911's with 3" barrels are the worst possible choice for both the 1911 platform AND for the .45 acp caliber.What do I suggest??? Easy. Go with a Commander-sized 1911: 4.25" barrel, conventional 230 gr. JHP ammo will still function with reasonably good terminal ballistics. These guns are very easy to conceal... NO-problemo! Plus, you'll gain significantly enhanced reliability, much longer recoil spring life, improved long distance accuracy potential, relatively good velocity, and be able to use full-capacity 1911 magazines!Best yet, have a bobtail job done on it and you'll have the very best carry-1911 there is! With little to no compromise in any department. Bite the bullet. Thank me later. ;-)~
    I would have bought a Colt if I could get one..however, other Commander sized 1911's hadn't even crossed my mind until now.. the Warthog concealability/.45 cal./10+1 mag capacity was the appeal to me.
    Don't get me wrong! I'm a huge fan of the original style WWI / WWII Colt's..and if I wanted a collector's item, I wouldn't have bought a gun with WARTHOG stamped on it.. it is simply a tool, and if I was a proud owner of a new Colt I would probably be afraid to scratch or damage it in hopes of having something to pass down to my grandkids..I would probably end up keeping it in a case or safe..gathering historical dusto.

    Last edited by juking; July 18th, 2007 at 11:45 AM.
    semper fi

  8. #8
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    A 3" 1911 is not my choice either, but not everyone can/ will carry the same gun. Lets keep the thread on topic. The OP owns a 3" 1911 and wants to know what ammo should work best for him.Thanks.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Member Array DHart's Avatar
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    Juking... good call on the 10-rnd cap of the Para! I was speaking to the other 3" 1911's as far as capacity goes.

    Regarding ammo, tests I've read indicate that among the best defense loads for the 3" .45's are CorBon 165 gr. PowRBall and CorBon DPX. These rounds offer good penetration AND good expansion when fired from a 3" barrel. Downside is that they're really expensive to function test and practice with. If I had to carry a 3" 1911, I'd either shoot these CorBon loads or go with 230 gr. FMJ and not worry about expansion... just rely on the excellent penetration of the load and the diameter of the .45.

    That Para is an attractive little gun.
    The clowns in government office see the solution to everything is write more laws, creating the ever-mounting morass of legal handicaps that we citizens must labor under.

    STATE'S RIGHTS RULE and should be INVIOLATE. Feds butt out!

  10. #10
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Below is a 12 year old test. Sorry, it's a bit scrambled.. I assume the Government model is a 5" barrel, and the Officer's ACP is a 3.5" barrel..The results ain't all that different, and the 3.5" barrel is expanding some of the rounds quite nicely. I have no idea what kind of test criteria was used here. I may have to buy a thirty pound ham, and do my own testing..

    Government Model:
    Brand/Velocity/Bullet/Momentum/Expand/Factor
    Federal 834 230 27.40 .730" 20.00
    Remington 869 230 28.55 .715" 20.41
    Hornady 857 200 24.48 .551" 13.49
    Hornady 926 230 30.43 .721" 21.94
    Winchester 828 230 27.21 .683" 18.58
    CCI Blazer 965 200 27.57 .587" 16.18
    Speer 869 230 28.55 .665" 18.99
    COR-BON 958 230 31.48 .718" 22.60

    Officer's ACP:
    Brand /VelocityBullet/Momentum/Expand/Factor
    Federal 835 230 27.44 .743" 20.39
    Remington 822 230 27.01 .721" 19.47
    Hornady 796 200 22.74 .568" 12.92
    Hornady 846 230 27.80 .645" 17.93
    Winchester 783 230 25.73 .659" 16.96
    CCI Blazer 915 200 26.14 .650" 16.99
    Speer 810 230 230 26.61 .683" 18.17
    COR-BON 886 230 29.11 .655" 19.06
    semper fi

  11. #11
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    How about some Hornady TAP?

    https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=s...roduct_id=1404

    Another option might be the EFMJ loads.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  12. #12
    Member Array juking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    How about some Hornady TAP?

    https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=s...roduct_id=1404

    Another option might be the EFMJ loads.

    Matt
    I wonder if the +P loads will harm my hog..The owner's manual says to use .45 ACP, but it doesn't warn against +P..hmm

    I forgot about this other test, from four years ago:

    In testing with 4 layers of 14oz denim and calibrated 10% gelatin the only loads to expand and not over penetrate the 18.5" gelatin blocks when fired from the 3" Springfield 45acp test pistol were the following:

    Winchester RA45TA 230gr +P
    Federal 230gr Tactical +P
    Corbon 165gr PowRBall
    Corbon 185gr jhp +P
    Triton 165gr Quick Shok
    Triton 165gr +P Hi Vel jhp

    Out of these loads only the RA45TA and the Federal Tactical 230gr +P penetrated to sufficient depth to penetrate to 14”

    The following loads all failed to expand and over penetrated the 18.5" test blocks:

    Winchester 185gr Silvertip
    Speer 185gr, 200gr +p, 230gr GDJHP
    Federal 165gr PD
    Federal 230gr Hydra Shok
    Remington 185gr, 185gr+P, 230gr Golden Saber
    Federal 200gr EFMJ+P
    PMC Starfire 230gr jhp
    Federal 230gr classic jhp
    Triton 185gr, 230gr HI- Vel jhp
    Triton 230gr QSHP +P
    Corbon 200gr, 230gr jhp +P
    Hornady CQ 185, 230gr jhp
    Hornady XTP 185, 200, 200+p, 230gr +P
    Winchester 230gr SXT jhp
    Winchester 230gr USA jhp
    Glaser 145gr +P blue and silver
    Black Hills 230gr +P XTP
    Black Hills 230gr GD"
    semper fi

  13. #13
    Member Array Mike from Texas's Avatar
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    I second a vote for the Hornady TAP loads. In the 200 grain +P offering it lists a muzzle velocity of 1055fps. I would expect well over 900 fps with a 3" barrel and should give satisfactory expansion. These have no and I mean NO flash at all out of my Ultra Carry and feed perfectly. Otherwise I would recommend the CorBon DPX but I'm not sure about it's flash tendencies. You could also look at the 230 grain Speer Gold Dot offering from Double Tap ammunition. This is listed at 1010fps out of a 5" barrel so again I would expect 900+ fps with this load with the 3" barrel and should expand nicely. I cannot recommend his 185 grain or 200 grain load because muzzle flash is bad in these loads.
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