.45acp+p

This is a discussion on .45acp+p within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by paratroop23 So back when you were there your troops had to make sure that they policed up their MRE guts and pougie ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Training Areas Varied....

    Quote Originally Posted by paratroop23 View Post
    So back when you were there your troops had to make sure that they policed up their MRE guts and pougie bait! Would the bears wander into perimeters? Or would they avoid human contact?
    The heavily traveled training areas fairly close to main post were pretty bear free. But when you went deeper into the Rainier Training areas that took a 30 minute BlackHawk ride to get to, it was more of a problem. Training missions with Canadian troops along the borders were sometimes a bit hairy (lol) too. Best bear medicine made is the CS Grenade.

    A much more prevalent problem all over post and in the housing areas as well as the Yakima Training areas (on the other side of the mountain -- High Desert) was with FERAL DOGS. They indeed would wander into perimeters and they moved in packs. Capable of taking down a mulie deer, they were real dangerous. Most were hunters dogs that just got loose and stayed wild.

    Since they were raised by people, there was no fear of people.

    My guys were quite creative in dealing with these. No live ammo allowed on an FTX and our officer ammo was strictly for varmints of the two legged nature who might have the idea of grabbing something SELECT FIRE or maybe BELT FED and selling it on the black market of nearby white supremasist or neo-nazi groups. All the platoon leaders had live ammo for security reasons.

    The troops came up with this lovely idea: Take the cleaning kit for an M16 and screw two sections of rod together. Take an M16 BLANK and decrimp it. Pop the crimp from the top of an M60 blank. Dump out the charge from the M16 blank and substitute the powder for the M60. Now you essentiually have a MEGA M16 blank. Slide that into the chamber and slide the cleaning rod "HARPOON" down the bore. It'll go thru an inch of pine board at about 45 feet. Accurate, too. LOUD.

    So you leave some warm MRE "bait" near an LP/OP about 100 meters forward of the perimeter. In the middle of the night you'll hear a chorus of BLAM'S! and a YELP cut short! Next thing you know there's a fire pit and the BUBBA'S in the outfit are wranglin' up some hot chow! Fresh meat! Not bad when well prepared. Amazing the benefits of Tobasco sauce and salt. Worked great on dogs. Wouldn't try it on a bear. For that, I'll stick to the CS Grenades.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #32
    Member Array paratroop23's Avatar
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    Talking

    Amazing what "Joes" can come up with!! I'm surprised that you allowed them to do the old blank and cleaning rod trick. I've heard that that is murder on the rifling inside the barrel. Pretty damn effective though !!!

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Talking I got a DEMO first.... of the techniques...

    Quote Originally Posted by paratroop23 View Post
    Amazing what "Joes" can come up with!! I'm surprised that you allowed them to do the old blank and cleaning rod trick. I've heard that that is murder on the rifling inside the barrel. Pretty damn effective though !!!
    We never had any problems with damaged rifling but I was never the LOONEY TUNES dumb LT. I had my buddy in the 2nd Ranger Battalion demonstrate all the techniques; including a live fire demonstration. Of course, we didn't go plinkin' with the rods, either! Strictly for harvesting game or killin' feral dogs.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #34
    Member Array Mainspring's Avatar
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    I hate doing this, but I have to "+1" on the pepper spray thing. This was brought up on another board, and this is what I said;

    "Let me preface this by saying that I am indeed a gun guy, and will always carry for defense whenever legally possible, whether it's to defend against two or four legged critters.

    Having said that, when I fear that I may have to go toe to toe with a bear, I prefer fixed sights, because it won't be quite as painful when the bear shoves that gun where the sun doesn't shine (very often). I've given this some thought, so bear (pun) with me in my logic;

    First, a few givens:
    A P.O.ed bear can cover a lot of ground very quickly. Let's say that a properly motivated bear can go from 0-35 mph in a hurry.
    A bear's skull is MUCH smaller than what it's in-tact head appears.
    A bear's brain is MUCH, MUCH smaller than what it's in-tact head appears.
    A bear's skull is pretty tough, and from the front makes a lousy target with it's somewhat areodynamic shape.
    A charging bear doesn't encourage a proper draw and solid shooting stance from the chargee.
    A bear's heart doesn't beat very fast, and a lot can happen before a bear stops with a good hit through the boiler room, thereby requiring a solid head shot to stop the charge.

    Given those givens, I liken making a good head shot on a charging bear to hitting a softball, that's inside a lightly armored basketball, that's moving at roughly 35 MPH, while it's bouncing, that both surpirses you and scares last night's dinner out of you.

    I'm not an authority on this, but I figure that most bears will charge from a distance of less than 50'. I can't do the math at the moment, but my best SWAG (scientific wild a$$ guess) is that the bear will be on you in well under 3 seconds. That gives you something less than 3 seconds to register the threat, form a plan, clear leather, assume a good shooting stance, acquire a target (the above softball inside the lightly armored bouncing basketball moving toward you at about 35 mph), and put a solid shot on said softball while you're in the process of filling your pants.

    That's a lot going on all at once, and presumes a 50' buffer.

    So, while I will always carry an appropriate lead launcher and will never try to talk anyone out of doing the same thing...I very clearly understand it's limitations, and will rely more heavily on a proven bear spray.

    I know that's not a cool gun guy thing to say, but that's what I think."


    Having said that, I've been thinking that a Clark .460 Rowland 1911 conversion has some cool potential. They claim .44 Mag performance from the 1911 platform. I have no experience with the thing, but I think I'd like to have some experience with it. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm
    Last edited by Mainspring; April 17th, 2007 at 06:29 AM.
    The keys to winning a gunfight are first to bring a gun and secondly to take your time, quickly.

    Always remember that if your opponent is within range, so are you.

    POWER TO THE MEPEOPLE!!!

  6. #35
    Member Array paratroop23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    We never had any problems with damaged rifling but I was never the LOONEY TUNES dumb LT. I had my buddy in the 2nd Ranger Battalion demonstrate all the techniques; including a live fire demonstration. Of course, we didn't go plinkin' with the rods, either! Strictly for harvesting game or killin' feral dogs.
    Sounds like you guys were having a blast out there!! More exciting than the Training area on Bragg!

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