This is a discussion on .45acp+p within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry a Springfield Armory 5" 1911. I am completely comfortable with a standard .45ACP 230 grain load 99% of the time. This being said ...
May 16th, 2005 11:07 PM
I carry a Springfield Armory 5" 1911. I am completely comfortable with a standard .45ACP 230 grain load 99% of the time. This being said when I go hiking, camping, etc. I would like a little extra. The biggest thing around here is black bears. Keeping in mind I am not trolling for bear and any encounter would be up close and personal, would .45ACP+P be up to the task. This would allow me to use the same platform as normal and simply use different ammo. Would a standard 16# recoil spring be alright for limited +P shooting to insure functioning. Any thoughts and ammo suggestions welcome.
May 16th, 2005 11:19 PM
Could it kill a black bear probley with proper shot placment would i like to try it no if i was worried about it that much i would switch platforms as i do when im up north ..
I switch to either my 44 mag or 454 casuall when im working in the woods
May 16th, 2005 11:27 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Brian - I am NOT the 1911 expert round here - many way more savvy than me but - I have a feeling that an 18# spring is useful when running hotter loads. That of course subject to confirmation or ridicule!!!
Leaving that aside - and as it'd be your butt up for grabs if you needed bear protection I'd be with Bud. Hot .44 or better would be way better protection IMO - .454 better still.
My thinking is - you may in extremis only get that one shot - it has to count!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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May 16th, 2005 11:29 PM
Opps forgot to add the stiffer recoil spring but p95 caught that
Also I have seen a black bear take a Good Hit from a 30-06 roll up to a tree and give the death moan .. Then get out of the blind with person i was sitting with and turn around and it was gone ..
We tracked it for a hour then was getting dark i was packing 454 and him a 41 mag since was getting dark we decided to call it a night ...
Worked our trail back off the main trail and low and behold new blood trail the Bear was following us dont know why it didnt attack us we never saw it.
Never Did find the bear Blood kind of dried up looked for a full day the next day and nothing ... A 30-06 puts out a lot more FT lbs energy than a 45 and the shot was less than 15 yards and thats close .
I know i would worry up close with my 44 or 454 deff no 45 ... just thought id toss this little story in for you
May 16th, 2005 11:30 PM
1952 - 2006
I'll agree with Bud on this, it could well do the job but I don't want to be the person to find out whether it will work or not. Bears require very deep penetration and I'm not sure a 45 ACP is going to get there. If shot in the face you may discourage him OR you may just succeed in really making him angry. I would definetly find a bigger gun if you expect to encounter a bear in the woods.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
May 16th, 2005 11:46 PM
Sound like I have a good reason to get a short .44 mag. I have a 6.5" S&W 29 classic but i think it would be a little hard to conceal. Thanks.
May 16th, 2005 11:58 PM
I See A Couple Of Problems For Bear
One would naturally be the penetration issue for bear.
Deep hard hitting penetration is required for both the skull & body.
The other would be a change in your auto slide cycle rate with an increased power recoil spring....which would also likely require a slightly stronger magazine feed spring to keep up.
Really not a problem if you intend to extensively test that exact pistol setup with enough +P ammo to insure absolute reliability.
My best guess is that you would be only borderline protected with .45ACP+P on any average to good sized POed blackie.
My suggestion would be to switch over to a minimum of a .44 mag (high quality revolver) with a 4" or longer barrel and the hottest, heaviest s.p. ammo that you feel comfortable with and toss a speed~loader into the mix.
With the proper shoulder rig (like a break front vertical) you might be able to use the S&W that you already have.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
May 17th, 2005 12:04 AM
Check out the new baby from Ruger, called THE ALASKAN.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
May 17th, 2005 12:04 AM
The 500 smint 4 inch or the ruger super redhawk alaskan would fit the bill fine for a carry bear gun.. I want a super alaskan if i one ever turns up here
May 17th, 2005 12:22 AM
That 4" 500 S&W has gotta have some serious bite.
May 17th, 2005 12:27 AM
Ive heard that the 4inch recoil is no worse than the 8 " but i havent shot either so its just what ive heard
May 17th, 2005 01:48 AM
This is part of the reason I'm glad I'm a 629 owner now. The worst thing I could run into are wild cats or a rabid coyote, and a 240 grain JSP .44 Magnum catridge is just the thing.
But a bear... yikes. I want me a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with slugs AND a .45-70.
May 17th, 2005 02:02 AM
In Colorado I did some black bear hunting with a .54 black powder. About a week before the season opened I suddenly realized that I had not considered what would happen if I hit one but was it wasn't a killing shot. I went out and bought a S&W 657 as a backup. Luckily handgun and muzzleloader season ran concurrent. Never saw a bear after the season opened....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
May 17th, 2005 10:12 PM
barely a noticeable diff in felt recoil...
Originally Posted by Bud White
The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
Henry Ward Beecher
May 18th, 2005 07:08 PM
Living in "the land of bears" I have approached various methods of
protection. The gun I currently carry is a 45 Colt Ruger Bisley with the
barrel cut back to 4.5" and Magna Ported. Shoots a 310 gr swc at 1240
fps. Went to the short barrel because I don't like longer barrels that dig
into or against the saddle.
Even though I have this Ruger I highly reccommend to you to get the
BIG container of pepper spray. All accounts around here say you have a
better chance of staying safe with OC than the Ruger.
Give a thought to how hard it will be to hit a critical spot on a bear that
is running at you - very small area. That does not mean I don't carry my
Ruger - it will be handy to have IF a bear gets a hold of me.
There is an excellant book on bear attacks written by Stephen Herrero
in which he talks about attacks and avoidance - and what guns some
Another advantage to the OC spray is it also works on 2 legged
Take Care.... Stay Safe.... Only Good Hits Count
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