August 3rd, 2007 02:09 PM
Winchester Ranger 9mm+P+ load???
I just bought a new 9mm M&P compact today, along with it I picked up a box of Win. Ranger "127 gr SXT 9mm+P+" ammo. I've never shot this ammo before - all my 9mm defense ammo has been TAP or the Federal Hydra-shock 135 gr stuff. A few questions for those who have used this Win. ammo:
1) Is it safe to use in modern pistols like the M&P?
2) Data - anyone know what the velocity and energy #'s are for this ammo?
3) Typical accuracy of this stuff?
August 3rd, 2007 02:46 PM
1) yes, but some firearms are not rated for anything other than the standard pressure so be sure of what you put it in.
3) It is their LEO line so it should be better than the shooter.
August 3rd, 2007 02:48 PM
Plus P (+P) is OK, but +P+ is a no-go.
From page 12 of the M&P manual:
If you are feeding a compact, I'd suggest having a look at the Speer short-barrel +P load. It's a 124gr. load, designed to get the correct muzzle velocity out of a 3.5 inch barrel.
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the
pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures
may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safe-
ty built into some revolvers and could therefore be DANGER-
OUS. This ammunition should not be used in Smith &Wesson
medium (K frame) revolvers manufactured prior to 1958. Such
pre-1958 medium (K-frame) revolvers can be identified by the
absence of a model number stamped inside the yoke cut of the
frame. (i.e., the area of the frame exposed when the cylinder is
in the open position.
“Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates
that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated.
Speer recommends that you not use this load in a 5" barrel, because it increases the chance of the bullet breaking up.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
August 4th, 2007 04:45 AM
Nato ammunition is hotter than even plus P plus. The Beretta used by our military is no stronger or weaker than your S&W. Use the Winchester 127 grain, it works very well.
August 4th, 2007 11:47 AM
Important to note here that I can think of no manufacturer who does rate their weapons for +P+, since there is no SAAMI spec for that loading. Essentially, that means that whatever can be crammed into the case can be considered +P+ if it's over the SAAMI pressure, even if it's guaranteed to disassemble most handguns. The only thing keeping the makers honest is costumer concerns and liability.
I'll take a .45 and a large side of JHPs, please.
August 4th, 2007 01:23 PM
I believe Hi-Point actually says +P+ is OK for their firearms. That being the case, I don't believe I'd hesitate to use it, in limited amounts, in a higher-quality firearm. Just shoot enough to know that it functions OK, and use lower powered rounds with about the same recoil impulse and POI for practice.
Originally Posted by vanilla_gorilla
August 4th, 2007 02:48 PM
This has been my experience as well. The hi-point manual is the only one I've seen that specifically invites the use of +P+ ammunition in their firearms. Most quality firearms will handle factory grade +P+ ammunition fairly well in limited quanitities.
Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith
August 4th, 2007 03:01 PM
The reason no Mfg will ok +P+ ammo is simply because there is no sammi standard for it . The designation only means above plus p load levels . Wiin , Federal , Corbon , ect .. the +p+ is ok , its safe ( in modern pistols , maby not so safe in the ww2 bring home ) and depending on mfg 5 to 10% more pressure than max +P if even that ) ... now if joe from down the block says he " remanufactured some brass to +p+ i would watch out .
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