Bullet damage

This is a discussion on Bullet damage within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Guys - someone else had found this and used it in a post - struck me as being of some interest to all perhaps. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...

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Thread: Bullet damage

  1. #1
    Assistant Administrator
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    Bullet damage

    Guys - someone else had found this and used it in a post - struck me as being of some interest to all perhaps.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From - Firing Line forum (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/.../t-47579.htm):


    "Dr45ACP

    "Sanow doesn't understand why people die after being shot.

    "I am a surgeon, have operated on many GSW victims.

    "No handgun, including 357, 9mm, etc, is a 'high energy' or 'high velocity' round. Energy and velocity are more important when we are talking about rifle calibers. With respect to high powered rifles, a shock wave of energy does spread out at impact and devitalizes a large area of tissue by disrupting small blood vessels, etc. The effects of this, however, may not be immediately obvious to the eye, though it will help to incapacitate the victim.

    "Handguns are low energy, low velocity weapons. They do not have this effect. The primary determinants of their lethality is shot placement and the size of the defect they create.

    "The cross sectional area of a 45 cal bullet is about 50% larger than for a 38 cal bullet, and therefore 50% more blood will be lost over a certain time. Or a 50% larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart, lung, etc.

    "My experience has been that people with large holes shot through them are more likely to die than those who have small holes. Big holes are harder to fix. More tissue is destroyed.

    "I have never seen anyone with an injury that I would attribute to 'energy' from a certain handgun round. All I see are holes that have to be repaired.

    "Velocity and energy for a handgun round is important because it increases the chances a hollowpoint will expand on impact.

    "Finally, as far a 9mm bullets tumbling: they certainly do. But so do 22, 25, 38, 40, and 45!"
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Thats a intersting Read... That proves the 45 and bigger holes is still better :chairshot

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    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Believe me, Sanow knows. Anyone who has ever listened to Sanow lecture knows.

    This is just more of the Marshall/Sanow haters baloney.

    Jealousy.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  5. #4
    Member Array Waldo0506's Avatar
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    Velocity and energy are important for other reasons too. Like penetration.

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    New Member Array MattXYZ's Avatar
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    Sanow and Marshall are biased chumps. Check out firearmstactical.com-wound ballistics for the discrepancies in their data.

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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Here we go again
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    I'm staying with my .45 so I'll not worry about it and just concentrate on putting any possible future life-defensive shots in hopefully effective locations.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Bottom line has always been that someone killed with a .22 is just as dead as one killed with a .45. The most important thing is to be able to hit your target (in a lethal place)!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Senior Member Array afeazell21's Avatar
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    That is interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Bottom line has always been that someone killed with a .22 is just as dead as one killed with a .45. The most important thing is to be able to hit your target (in a lethal place)!
    Yep here we go again.

    22s do kill, but it takes a lot longer. I prefer an immediate stop, or at least as is convenient.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Senior Member Array ElMonoDelMar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    "The cross sectional area of a 45 cal bullet is about 50% larger than for a 38 cal bullet, and therefore 50% more blood will be lost over a certain time. Or a 50% larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart, lung, etc."
    This stat is a little misleading.

    Assuming all things equal, a .45 caliber hole is only 1.40 times the size of a .38 caliber hole. So in actuallity a 1.40 times larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart or lung with a .45 than will be made with a .38. Seems pretty insignificant to me.
    Last edited by ElMonoDelMar; September 30th, 2006 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Typo

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    I say, almost any caliber,with almost any bullet,several times,in COM.

    I got better things to worry about.

    Things like training. Things like preparidness. Things like mindset. ---------

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I'm staying with my .45 so I'll not worry about it and just concentrate on putting any possible future life-defensive shots in hopefully effective locations.
    Me too

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    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
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    IMHO shot placement #1, #2 Size of projectile.
    Remember a .22 in the hart kills just like a .45 in the hart will.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Big holes, more holes, holes where they need to be. Modern HPs generally all equalize with around .55-.60 optimal expansion. "Optimal" is the operative word. Energy optimizes expansion, with proper design, but has little to do with "shock" in the 100-240 grain, 1400fps and lower envelope. The surgeon is correct, in that aspect. A gut-shot with a .30-06/7mm/.308 spitzer will definitely take the wind out of a homosapien's sails, via neurogenic shock.

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