Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

This is a discussion on Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070817/D8R2UKLG0.html " Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition ...

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Thread: Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

  1. #1
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    Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070817/D8R2UKLG0.html

    "Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition shortages hitting police departments nationwide and preventing some officers from training with the weapons they carry on patrol.

    An Associated Press review of dozens of police and sheriff's departments found that many are struggling with delays of as long as a year for both handgun and rifle ammunition. And the shortages are resulting in prices as much as double what departments were paying just a year ago.
    "
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson


  2. #2
    Member Array RM686's Avatar
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    I read this article on a news service and think it is not as serious a problem as the writer would have you believe. Yes prices have gone up but 223 practice rounds, give me a break. I just got 1000 rounds delivered with no problem. The cops are using Tap ammo but you don't practice with that and don't need it to qualify.
    Same hold true for handgun ammo. How many rounds do you need to qualify and yes if your using that lead free crap to practice there has always been a short supply..

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I would be willing to bet those stories of agencies waiting months or even over a year in the case of 38 rounds has more too it. These are probably low price bulk discount deals they have established and the bottom line is suppliers make lousy margin on them. On the other hand I can buy any ammo I need in the store or online.

    Free Markets Baby. Saying they can't get ammo is not right, they just do not wish to pay the market price for it and must wait until the suppliers decide... "Alright, all our profitable orders are filled so lets take care of those charity jobs."

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    Member Array amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Saying they can't get ammo is not right, they just do not wish to pay the market price for it and must wait until the suppliers decide... "Alright, all our profitable orders are filled so lets take care of those charity jobs."
    It's not all that easy for a Police Agency to just step up and "Pay the Market Price". They set the amounts they can pay for ammo this year during the budget process last year. There is only so much available for Ammo, Gas, Salaries, Vehicles, Equipment, Operating Expenses. If you have to pay almost double for your training ammo than what you did last year, what else gets left out. How many officers get laid off? Support Staff? How many "Junk Patrol Cars" are kept in service because the replacement money went to increased ammo costs.

    I recall .223 ammo (New brass cases, not reloads or Steel Cased) sold for half of todays price. Now THAT is a heavy increase.

    We all ***** when a government agency spends our money without care, we certainly can't then say "just pay the market price and shut up" when they show fiscal responsibility.
    ""If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, I either won't need more or, more won't help me.""

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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070817/D8R2UKLG0.html

    "Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition shortages hitting police departments nationwide and preventing some officers from training with the weapons they carry on patrol.

    An Associated Press review of dozens of police and sheriff's departments found that many are struggling with delays of as long as a year for both handgun and rifle ammunition. And the shortages are resulting in prices as much as double what departments were paying just a year ago.
    "


    I think its amusing! I like to see local governments work within a budget like the rest of us Here in Florida the governer has cut property taxes an average of 10%. Now all the counties are crying for more money. Time to cut out all the fat!!
    Jesus said "and if you dont have a sword (AK), sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Gosh they all might end up like the Police in Tijuana..only for a different reason...Have to carry a sling shot!...I see it now...
    "Is that a Wamo or Wrist rocket Paahdnuh?"..".ah a Wamo"..".more stoppin power, dude"(or dudettte).....hee hee

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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    If they have a contract for someone to provide a certain number of rounds to a government agency for a set price by a certain date, that sounds like a legal problem to me, not monetary or inability to get the rounds. Get the lawyers involved.

    As far the price goes, again, how many rounds a year do cops expend practicing and qualifying? A box, maybe two judging by my LEO friends.

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    Member Array amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    If they have a contract for someone to provide a certain number of rounds to a government agency for a set price by a certain date, that sounds like a legal problem to me, not monetary or inability to get the rounds. Get the lawyers involved.

    As far the price goes, again, how many rounds a year do cops expend practicing and qualifying? A box, maybe two judging by my LEO friends.
    You think that most Local, County, and State Police Departments are capable of that kind of "forward thinking"? I have found that none of them want to get tied to a contract price for things like ammunition for training. They all seem to think that they can buy "deals" as they come about. The only place they seem to have any "savvy" and get long term contracts is for fuel. But then only after getting bit in the butt over rapidly rising costs.

    When it comes to government, their people need to get bitten a few times before they make any plans on how to "handle the unruly dog".

    Oh, by the way, some companies are the same. I know, I retired from one. The CEO was an Accountant. Didn't want any obligations in the form of long term contracts. They made his financial statement look bad and it effected his "Bonus".
    ""If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, I either won't need more or, more won't help me.""

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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoFan View Post
    how many rounds a year do cops expend practicing and qualifying? A box, maybe two judging by my LEO friends.
    Depends on the agency. I go through about ten 50 round boxes every month at a minimum (on agency time). Some others will shoot every quarter and others only annualy. But then again, I shot that much even when my agency didnt pay for the ammo.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  10. #10
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    I'm not saying all LEO's or agencies are on the low side, just the majority I've personally known. Two examples, the first is a friend of mine in IL was the trainer/armorer for his department (until they zero'd out the training budget!) who is a gun guy and would have the department buy a case of ammo for the annual practice & qualifications. After everyone finished practice and qualifications, he still had most of that case left over! He couldn't force people to practice, they just had to qualify. The second example was an arson investigator who got to go through the same annual courses as the city and state police. Based on his experience on how badly the rest of the class did, I'm guessing the city and state police officers didn't practice much, if at all.

    The original story did mention delays of over a year, indicating something had been ordered and not delivered. Unless ammo companies are more trusting of LE agencies than their other customers, that means the LE agencies paid up front and their ammo is not being delivered, which is a violation of contract law and/or fraud.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    My agency gives us 60 rounds of FMJ a year, at qual time, for our primary duty pistol. We have to buy our own duty and practice ammo. Some of use shoot seldom, while others, like me, spend hundreds a year on ammo. I have indeed noticed the price increases! Shortages, too. For a while, I could not find fresh .223 in the bullet weight specified by my agency, for practice or carry. I have noticed .45 ACP to be in short supply, too, though I use mostly .40 and .357, so the .45 shortage has not affected me.

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