Winchester White Box Failure Rate
This is a discussion on Winchester White Box Failure Rate within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter
I'll bet that nobody makes it all the way down to this post.
Wow, I have fired a ton of this ...
September 6th, 2007 06:21 AM
Wow, I have fired a ton of this stuff (9mm Winchester WB) through my Glock 19 and have had no issues. I just picked up another 1000 rounds for a class next week. I have sometime wondered about its accuracy......or mine. ;)
Originally Posted by QKShooter
September 6th, 2007 07:50 AM
Lots of folks have had no problems with it.
I never did either until I did.
I was just surprised at some folks on other spots on the Internet said that they carried it in their defensive handgun because that is what they practice with and have not had problems with it.
I just don't think that is such a great idea.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
September 6th, 2007 08:08 AM
WWB problems are more than wolf! I guess ,I would have a problem with ammo if it destroyed my piece.
Last edited by Stetson; September 6th, 2007 at 08:09 AM.
September 6th, 2007 08:31 AM
QKShooter, what do you recommend for general practice shooting? I admit that I practice withthe WWB and PMC and i've never had a problem with either. With that being said, I don't want to have a problem so I was thinking that it would be better to switch up now to avoid any potential problems.
September 6th, 2007 08:32 AM
I didn't read every account, but we must consider that ammo is not necessarily the only cause of malfunctions while using the ammo. User problems can contribute also. I would expect similar findings if I was looking for problems with Glocks.
I personally know of 20,000 rounds fired without a single problem in accuracy, feeding, extracting, none whatsoever. And I shoot about 10,000 rounds of the stuff a year myself and can't recall any issue that made me think the ammo was unreliable or inaccurate. In fact, when I switched to Blazer this year, my accuracy actually decreased some.
I have no idea how to explain such a wide variation in experiences with WWB. But I know for myself, some others, and especially Brownie, we simply aren't seeing problems. Could we? Sure. But I've seen problems with other brands and none with WWB.
Brownie shoots and has used WWB for years in enormous quantities and has no problem with it and both buys it and recommends it for his classes. I wish he'd post his thoughts here, I suspect he and his classes fire at least 100,000 rounds of WWB a year.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
September 6th, 2007 09:09 AM
Any opinions on UMC yellow box vs WWB? The UMC seems to be a tiny bit cheaper so I'm just wondering which to get. Thanks!
September 6th, 2007 10:13 AM
I am really acting as a semi~disinterested third party here because I don't use it at all these days.
I actually started noticing (a while back) a (perceived by me) abnormally high percentage of Internet Users/Shooters reporting squib problems with it.
I am primarily concerned with the seemingly too excessive reported squibs.
But, I am not waging a war against WWB. Not at all.
In fact I intend to edit out the lousy accuracy claims since so much of that could be shooter error or just switching to a different ammo brand/bullet weight.
Since I do not believe that WWB is actually manufactured by Winchester...it's possible that some of the above reported incidents were idiosyncratic to certain manufacturers that the cartridge construction was farmed out to.
Regardless, it will be interesting to see if any of our members have had any squib or "hang fire" problems recently.
It possible that the QC issues with it have now all been resolved.
I'll be curious to see what gets posted here as far as Yea or Nay with it.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
September 6th, 2007 10:36 AM
Just saw this thread.
Interesting compilation of people across a wide market who purport problems with WWB. I had not seen or heard of that many people before, but then until someone like QKShooter puts up the amount of people who believe they have had problems due to the WWB ammo in one spot, who would unless they were looking for that information specifically.
BTW- Nice compilation of posts from others QK
My first thought is----do we know what caliber/s are involved for the most part with those who believe [ or know ] the ammo is the cause of problems?
Secondly---were the problems seen over a short time span vs over several years? It's entirely possible that Winny had QC issues over several multiple lots based on perhaps bad/subpar powders used, bad/subpar primers used which was eventually corrected?
Third--can we extrapolate from the information what guns have experienced the problems, and more importantly perhaps, can we determine if some brand/s of firearm are experiencing the problems more than others?
I've probably shot wwb 9mm and 45acp exclusively for practice and classes for about three years totalling over 50K alone, no issues with any loads in either caliber to date in any of the guns I've used.
Students have put at least 80K of wwb through firearms of all sorts yearly on the ranges in classes for a few years and we have not seen anything ammo related to date with the wwb.
I've carried ball ammo ocassionally in the SD guns, but not often. I would not personally carry wwb for the street. The only factory ball ammo I've had any problem with was a 45acp ball load by Remington back in the mid 80's during a match. I had a squib, and fortunately both the line officer and myself heard it at the same time and I didn't pull the trigger on the next round.
I don't know what to make of the amount of people reporting problems with wwb here. I have over 25K in 9mm and 14K in 45acp in wwb stored presently, and I'm not worried about shooting it based on this thread, and will continue to buy it as long as it is the cheapest I can find locally.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
September 6th, 2007 10:54 AM
September 6th, 2007 11:11 AM
Could it be a bad batch? They had a couple of recalls in the past.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
September 6th, 2007 12:31 PM
I use the WWB JHP rounds in my 9mm carry guns. I'm just too poor to buy 200 rounds of hydrashocks per gun to prove that they function flawlessly.
I haven't shot as many rounds of WWB as most of these guys here, but after a few thousand, I've never had one not go bang. The local Police Academy uses the WWB as their practice ammo and I've never heard any of the officers complaining of squibs or FTF.
The way I figure it, the odds that I will ever have to use my gun are small to begin with and when you add to that the odds of a round malfunctioning at the same time, it's even smaller. That may be a disconnected statistical way of looking at things, but it works for me.
September 6th, 2007 12:43 PM
September 6th, 2007 07:51 PM
I used to shoot WWB alot, the only problem I had with it was it would dirty my guns up pretty bad, which wasn't really an issue, as they get a bath after the range anyway. That was until a few months ago, at the range, pull the trigger, on my 9mm, "click", no bang, so I promptly went into detective mode and looked down the barrel to see what was up (just kidding). I held it down range thinking I had a hangfire, nothing, dropped the magazine, cleared the weapon, the primer had a definite firing pin strike on it. Ok so I got a dud, I finished out the rest of the magazine and reloaded, no problems, until the 5th round same thing, needless to say a little freaked out, by this point. Two rounds in the same box of ammo, don't fire, that was enough drama for me in one day, I packed it in and threw the remaining WWB in the trash and haven't bought any since. Kinda stinks, since it served me well, as range ammo, up until that incident.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
If you want a battle of the wit's, please come armed.
Ron Paul Revolution 2008!!!
September 6th, 2007 08:20 PM
It is not disconnected at all. You are exactly on point. This ties in with the internal lock discussion. Anecdotal evidence should not be completely dismissed, but it should not be given any significant weight in making a decision. As others have explained, the ammo is not necessarily at fault in each of the failures QK enumerated. In fact, the WWB ammo is so frequently used, you would EXPECT failures to occur with that ammunition more than other brands.
Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar
The ONLY correct method for determining the statistical significance of failures is to perform a scientifically designed experiment using a control ammunition and the suspect WWB ammunition and determine if the rate of failures is greater than a predetermined confidence level (in design of experiments that figure is typically 95 or 98%) in both the experimental grup and the control group.
All the rest is just internet chatter.
September 6th, 2007 08:43 PM
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