Test: Pocket pistol ammo .25 and .380

This is a discussion on Test: Pocket pistol ammo .25 and .380 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Did some more testing with some pocket pistols. The setup was wet packed newspaper and 2 layers of denim cloth. Range about 3'. For the ...

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Thread: test: Pocket pistol ammo .25 and .380

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    test: Pocket pistol ammo .25 and .380

    Did some more testing with some pocket pistols. The setup was wet packed newspaper and 2 layers of denim cloth. Range about 3'. For the .25 we used a Raven. We had some Winchester Expanding point and some Gold Dot. The Expanding Point is what I guess could be called a first generation powerball. While we don't normally measure penetration due to the unscientific mix of paper, both the XP and the Gold Dot were found at exactly the same depth in the same piece of paper. The second XP was fired because we couldn't find the first one right away. We shot again into bare newspaper and the Gold Dot expanded perfectly, so the denim must have had some effect. First pic is the Gold Dot and two XPs in denim, the second a Gold Dot and XP in bare wet newspaper. Very consistant performance from the XP, and it feeds in anything. (even cheap Ravens)

    In the .380 we used a Kel Tec and a Sig 232. The first round is a Hydra Shok from the KT with minimal expansion. We did not see any denim wrapped around the center post, which is an argument we'll be working on soon. We went up to the 232 and got fine performance. I forgot to shoot a Gold Dot from the KT, it was a busy day at the shop. If there's any interest, I'll redo that one later. The third attached pic is the Hydra Shok from a KT, one from a 232, and the Gold Dot from a 232.

    Thanks for your patience with the pics. Hope someone finds this educational. Still accepting requests, too.
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    Member Array lr_01's Avatar
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    While you show the expansion of the bullets.

    How about penetration?

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Penetration

    I really have no way to consistantly measure penetration in any meaningful way. Too many variables with the test medium. If I were using something repeatable, I would trust it more, but not this. Even the consistancy can change from shot to shot as you dig the bullets out and pack the paper back up. The two .25s I found in the same piece of paper was an exception. Although I couldn't relate paper to muscle or tissue, both went exactly the same distance. It just happened that I saw the Gold Dot and pulled that page out without noticing the dull-colored XP in it too. I test in a 5 gallon plastic bucket packed with newspaper and water with a touch of soap. I'm just not set up for milk jugs, gelatin, or such like. I get enough grief from the boss about the mess the newsprint makes on the range, much less splattering gallons of water about.

    You can get to the lungs and heart with 3.5" of needle if you know where to stick it. I'm not totally hung up on deep penetration. I like a bit of expansion and maybe even some fragmentation if I can get it. I'd like a flat cutting surface on an expanding bullet over a round nosed deep penetrator if given the choice. That's just me. You'll find opinions and experts here that can give good argumants for both points of view. Some will quote lab tests, animal tests, real life shooting stories, tea leaves, even internet studies. I'm just adding to the debate.

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