.40 S&w

This is a discussion on .40 S&w within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since I will soon be the owner of a .40 Short and Weak chambered poodle shooter, I'm curious what's out there to best shoot poodles ...

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Thread: .40 S&w

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    .40 S&w

    Since I will soon be the owner of a .40 Short and Weak chambered poodle shooter, I'm curious what's out there to best shoot poodles with.

    The consensus seems to be that you can't go wrong with the 165 grain Golden Sabers. I've read the Gold Dots are basically a bonded (did I use the right term?) version of this catridge that may be better suited for some situations.

    The general consensus also seems to be against the 180 grain loads except for recreational purposes (steel and pins). The intended launching platform, it it matters, is a service sized XD40. I anticipate this gun will eat anything I run through it and beg for more, and its barrel length is listed as 4.08", which should be enough to generate constant expansion with most premium loads.

    It's actually a pretty neat cartridge with some mildly interesting properties... it doesn't let you play around too much like revolver chamberings do, but it looks like there's a surprising variety to play with. I can't wait to compare it to the 9x19 and see which one I prefer.

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  3. #2
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    Euc - I am a total ignoramous on .40 - it is the one cal I have ''resisted'' - I already have too many cals - and dies for all!

    Going tho by folks at the club ... some use XD-40 some use Glock (22 is it?) but 165's do seem to receive a lot of favor.
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    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    As bullets and gunpowder have become more efficient over time, the need for large brass cases has diminished. For example, a heavily loaded Colt Walker was the most powerful standard commercial handgun until 1935. This new .357 Magnum could easily be dropped right into the cylinder of a Walker with room to spare.

    Even the .45 GAP is a +P version of a traditional .45 ACP. Even the way we burn gunpowder is getting better. A .223 WSSM easily surpasses a 22-250, and that's with commercial loads. Wait until the reloaders phutz with them.

    When I started loading the 10mm Auto in 1985, there wasn't a lot of data; most of the reliable info came from Harlene at Dornaus & Dixon. Oh, you could fill up the case with powders like Blue Dot and Alcan AL-8, but you got real performance from Accurate Arms, and there was lots of case capacity left over.

    It was soon common place to have a 10mm hit with enough force far down range as a .45 ACP could muster at the muzzle. The pistols were just too big.

    The epithet 'short and weak' was used by guys who didn't own the gun. Then I got my first .40 SW, the Model 4006, followed by the 4013. It didn't take long to realize a 180 grain bullet and A/A #5 made big holes with guns the size of 9mm pistols.

    Without looking very hard, my friend's pockets yield .40's the size of Walther PPK/s. I good solid hit with a Golden Saber is pretty much lights out.

    I love my 1911's. I guard my home with .40's.

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Cool The 40 is a good round.

    Euc I'll be carrying my Glock M27 out to Texas in a couple of weeks and I'll feel well armed the whole way. I use MagSafes for the initial loads in the gun, then segue to a hi-cap M22 (15rds) mag of Speer 155gr GOLD DOT and then to Federal Personal Defense loads of 135gr. I hear there is a new round from Hornady using its famed XTP controlled expansion round. I'll be picking up some of those next week at the gun show. The major advantage to this new round is low flash, low recoil and lower noise levels. I have all my mags loaded and ready to launch something like 72 rds before I have to even think of topping off mags with the spare hundred rounds I always carry in various boxes of 50 or 20. I have this neat little green bag that I carry my security stuff in: Gun, loaded mags, ear protection, and various holsters. Plus boxed ammo. Plus a set of 8x25 Binocs. Not too heavy, so if I have to bail from the vehicle, it's an easy grab.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    I'm issued a S&W 4006 for duty. Our duty round is a 180gr Hydrashok. I own a G27 personally, and I usually carry 155gr Gold Dots in it. I want a lighter bullet due to the shorter barrel. I just bought a box of 180gr Gold Dots because that is all the shop had in stock.

    The .40 is an okay round. I prefer a hot loaded 9mm, but I have no issues with the .40SW.
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    FLM
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    I don't know where you get the idea that the 180 gr loads aren't effective. Many LE agencies use this load with good results. I prefer the 180 gr Ranger T in my Glock 23, but the 180 gr Gold Dot would be good also.
    Here are Doc Robert's recommendations:

    .40 S&W:
    Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
    Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
    Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
    Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
    Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
    Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
    Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
    Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

    He also thinks the DPX copper HP looks very promising.

  8. #7
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    I also have seen good (backyard) test results form 180 grn. HP rounds. Honestly I think bullet placement matters much more than bullet weight/caliber. I have 2 .40's and really like em both. 40 short &weak? compared to what ? a .44 mag? A 10mm?

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Well of course the shot placement matters more than the caliber or the weight! And of course a slightly different load in the same caliber matters much less!

    I just subscribe the the school of thought that your ammunition selection is just as important as your gun selection. After all it's the ammunition that you''re actually counting on to save your bacon when it hits its target!

    Lot of options here. I too was wondering why I couldn't find anyone saying the 180 grain loads were just fine... figured it might be one of those odd duck type things like a 147 grain 9mm catridge that a few people swear by.

    I'll pick up two or three different weights and see if I can feel any sort of difference.

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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    ...The consensus seems to be that you can't go wrong with the 165 grain Golden Sabers. I've read the Gold Dots are basically a bonded (did I use the right term?) version of this catridge that may be better suited for some situations...
    IIRC, Ammolab testing suggested that Gold Dots and Ranger loads expanded more reliably than the Golden Sabers, but that may be old info, now. Bullet designs get modified. The bonded Gold Dots seem to make a difference in barrier penetration (e.g., windshield glass), where older bullet designs like the SXT seem to suffer more from the core and jacket separating. At least that's my understanding. I've heard that 165 and 180 gr both perform well. If it were me, I'd go with the GD or Ranger loads. My only experience is with my drop-in barrel on the range, shooting FMJ, and I couldn't say that I prefer one over the other.
    - Tom
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    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    If the speed or construction of the .40 SW is a deal-breaker for some, or you just like hot 9x19's, then just take your .40 down as you would for cleaning.

    Replace the barrel with one in 357 SIG and shoot that.

    The 357 SIG's figures rival the Federal 125 grain .357 Mag.

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    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Cor Bon DPX
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

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    The Golden Sabre 165 are the way to go in my book
    If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space... Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!!!!

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    Thumbs down .357 Sig

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    If the speed or construction of the .40 SW is a deal-breaker for some, or you just like hot 9x19's, then just take your .40 down as you would for cleaning.

    Replace the barrel with one in 357 SIG and shoot that.

    The 357 SIG's figures rival the Federal 125 grain .357 Mag.
    I've not really seen the figures where that is the case. Supposed to be that way. Only thing I know and I have mentioned it before, is that the .357 Sig is L-O-U-D!!!! I can recognize a 357 Sig on an IDPA range among a dozen courses of fire being run simultaneously! I would HATE to light one off from say the drivers seat of my car during a carjacking. Sure the BG would be dead but I'd be permanently deaf and if God forbid I missed and had to fire more shots, the instilled flinch from the muzzle blast would make matters worse! But that's just IMHO.
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  15. #14
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    I've not really seen the figures where that is the case
    Depending on the load, in some cases the data is better.

    It's nothing magic, just the smaller 110 or 125 grain bullet, more gun powder and a modern firrearm.

    Years ago, a friend bought a four-ganger cast bullet block that produces 125 grain flat point lino bullets. I still have the mold. Brass for the 357 SIG is pretty commonplace now, but you can even resize .40 SW brass, although the OAL length is a tad shorter.

    My purpose was to prove/disprove the round in actual real-life tests and conditions.

    I wasn't going to swing for the fences, I was just going to try and top 9x19 loads with 357 SIG rounds with actual shooting. You could bounce golf balls, shoot a ballistic pendulum, shoot clay blocks, penetrate layers of 4x8, etc., whatever criteria is important to you.

    The comparison data is there (and I try never to go by hype), but the real deal is that the 357 SIG is carried by a few police departments.

    Thatmight not be the performance of the round, alone. Cycling a bottleneck cartridge is almost 100% problem free, and some departments might have wanted to answer "jamming" concerns.

  16. #15
    JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    but you can even resize .40 SW brass, although the OAL length is a tad shorter.
    I wouldn't recommend it. The internal 357 SIG case dimensions are more beefed up than the .40 S&W case.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

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