Help me pick some 10mm

This is a discussion on Help me pick some 10mm within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, so I have ordered a Tanfoglio Witness Compact in 10mm. This will be my "large carry gun" for winter and times when a larger ...

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Thread: Help me pick some 10mm

  1. #1
    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Help me pick some 10mm

    OK, so I have ordered a Tanfoglio Witness Compact in 10mm. This will be my "large carry gun" for winter and times when a larger gun can be carried. My decision now is what load to purchase. Here are the options I was considering:

    Doubletap Golden Saber, 165gr

    Winchester silvertip, 175gr

    The Double Tap stuff is hotter, it appears, and is in the 740ftlbs range. But I have heard of all the commercial factory ammo (not counting Double Tap or Buffalo Bore in this category) the Winchester is one of the few loads that are still "hot".

    I guess my question is...all things being equal, I'd want the Double Tap as I like the bullet design and I've heard great things about it. But would I be better off picking the Winchester, because I've heard scary stories about EAA's customer service. I don't want the gun being defective, and then them claiming that it was my fault for using non-factory ammo.

    Price is pretty close (actually a bit cheaper I think for the DT) so that's not an issue.
    "For evil to flourish all that is required is for good men to spout clichés." - Hugh Laurie

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Go with Winchester i was not impressed with the Double tap

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    DT

    I have shot several boxes of 135gr DT in my 10mm, no issues regarding power, performance, or quality. Can't wait to try the Gold Saber load. The Silvertip is indeed "full power" 10mm. I believe I would call DT factory ammo, so no worries there. Factory ammo, just a small factory.

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    Ex Member Array brianbat420's Avatar
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    740ftlbs !!!!!!!!!

    If the market and firearms choices were bigger I woudl have to seriously look at the 10mm

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    DT loads hotter than the Winchester ST. Of the major manufacturers, Winchester is the closest to the original Norma loadings, although in practice the velocity is closer to 1150fps, not 1290fps.

    Handloading will bring out great 10mm performance for cost. DT is like 50 cents a round. You can load jacketed ammo for 80% less than that.

    For 10mm's there is Glock, 1911's like Kimber and Dan Wesson, the Witness line, and a few others. That is all you need.

  7. #6
    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Handloading would be quite worth it in 10mm, I grant, but I am not set up for any kind of reloading and don't really have the space for it, or the money to get set up. Besides, that kind of moves further down the road of "EAA will claim it voids your warranty", even moreso than Double Tap. Cost of ammo is quite a bit, I'll grant, but not so much an issue as this will be a defensive gun, not a target/range/competition gun that gets thousands of rounds put through it with regularity.
    "For evil to flourish all that is required is for good men to spout clichés." - Hugh Laurie

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Every manufacturer has the "no reloads" in their manuals. They are covering their butt in case some idiot blows up their gun and claims it is the maker's fault. I have yet to find a way for a factory to prove you used handloads.

    I've shot hundreds of thousands of reloads in my guns and never had any issues at all. I own almost 50 guns and all but three have never, ever seen a factory load.

    For $200 you can have a setup for 10mm and just add components. At 80% savings you will pay for the equipment in about 500 rounds. Or about 2.5 hours of loading on a Classic Turret press, which takes up less space than a sheet of paper.

    It costs more to continuing to buy factory ammo than it does to get a simple reloading setup. Keep that in mind.

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    Member Array nicneufeld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Every manufacturer has the "no reloads" in their manuals. They are covering their butt in case some idiot blows up their gun and claims it is the maker's fault. I have yet to find a way for a factory to prove you used handloads.

    I've shot hundreds of thousands of reloads in my guns and never had any issues at all. I own almost 50 guns and all but three have never, ever seen a factory load.

    For $200 you can have a setup for 10mm and just add components. At 80% savings you will pay for the equipment in about 500 rounds. Or about 2.5 hours of loading on a Classic Turret press, which takes up less space than a sheet of paper.

    It costs more to continuing to buy factory ammo than it does to get a simple reloading setup. Keep that in mind.
    Don't get me wrong, I'll be doing it eventually, but right now it is embarrassing how rarely I've been getting to the range. So it'll take me a good long while to justify the expense.

    As for the reloads thing, I agree that every manufacturer states this...but EAA has a reputation for being absolute jerks in their customer service and is much more likely to take a hardline if they even suspect handloads. So its that in particular I'd be concerned with. But to be fair here I should point out that my characterization above was only formed from internet forum posts on the subject and anecdotes contained therein, not by any personal experience, so I have yet to find out if the reputation is accurate. I'm not saying they are in fact jerks...just saying I've read a decent number of threads saying so, and have no personal experience to counter that.

    I'm leaning towards Double Tap. I appreciate the dissenting opinion though. Any particular reason you weren't impressed with it? What was the flaw you saw in it? Many thanks!
    "For evil to flourish all that is required is for good men to spout clichés." - Hugh Laurie

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicneufeld View Post
    I'm leaning towards Double Tap. I appreciate the dissenting opinion though. Any particular reason you weren't impressed with it? What was the flaw you saw in it? Many thanks!
    DT ammo is great in 10mm as it is true full power "what 10mm Auto is supposed to be" ammunition from a factory manufacturer. I think it is overpriced. McNett (owner) is charging a premium price for the extra fps over the other competition. Good for him.

    I am impressed with the performance and actually chronoed some of his ammo in my 4" 10mm. It was on par with advertised velocities for the G20 length barrel. However, I don't think the performance justifies the price, as my handloads get within 50fps of his (which who cares about 50fps) but cost a dime a piece for jacketed bullets versus his 50 cents a round for factory ammo. If I can save 80% over the cost of DT but get 50fps less velocity than DT, I'll take handloads any day.

    As you can see, I'm a staunch handloading advocate. I cannot fathom any reason to shoot factory ammunition. My handloads are a lot cheaper, are more accurate, are tailored to my needs and my weapons, and give me the satisfaction of self reliance-that I made that great group with ammunition I assembled by myself. Factory doesn't offer any of that.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I use DT 135 grains as the main carry load in my Delta Elite with two backup mags of the 200grain XTP from DT. I figure if I still have problems after the first 10 rounds of the 135 gr I am probably dealing with either a Sasquatch or Elephant loose from the circus.

    Double Tap is factory ammo. It is all I carry for defense in my 10mm. For defensive ammo it is also very well priced and in a box of 50.

    Now for general shooting I load my own and would advise any other 10mm shooter to do the same. It gets real expensive otherwise. Even if you simply get a Lee Pro 1000 and never change calibers you will see a significant savings.

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    Member Array BillR's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    My G20 is loaded with DT 165gr Golden Sabers as I type this. It's a nice round. I also run Georgia Arms 155gr Gold Dots at 1375 fps. The DTs seem to be SLIGHTLY more accurate at longer ranges, but both rounds shoot equally well at normal handgun distances.
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    Dang bro, 10mm! Anything you put in that thing will be more than sufficient!

    Take a look at CorBon 155gr DPX! You could drop a moose with it!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Member Array Locopelli's Avatar
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    JMHO-

    10mm is a great round, I love it. Can even be considered a handgun hunting round depending on your quarry.

    However I would not consider an ideal self defense round for the same reason I would not carry my .44 Rem Mag for self defense (except in wilderness situations with large hungry mammals), the benefit of extra ft lbs must be weighed against the extra recoil. Yes, a well balanced gun will soak up that recoil well but often at the cost of a larger heavier gun with a very stiff spring.

    So you have a heavier, harder to operate, harder to manage weapon that you get to say has XXX more ft lbs of energy than XYZ gun. I personally have decided that I am better able to put more lead on target faster with a .40 S&W or even a .45 ACP.

    Just food for thought for any newbie that may be considering a 10mm for the bragging rights and not thinking about some of the realities of such a weapon.

    All you 10mm guys are better men than I.

  15. #14
    Member Array BillR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locopelli View Post
    JMHO-

    10mm is a great round, I love it. Can even be considered a handgun hunting round depending on your quarry.

    However I would not consider an ideal self defense round for the same reason I would not carry my .44 Rem Mag for self defense (except in wilderness situations with large hungry mammals), the benefit of extra ft lbs must be weighed against the extra recoil. Yes, a well balanced gun will soak up that recoil well but often at the cost of a larger heavier gun with a very stiff spring.

    So you have a heavier, harder to operate, harder to manage weapon that you get to say has XXX more ft lbs of energy than XYZ gun. I personally have decided that I am better able to put more lead on target faster with a .40 S&W or even a .45 ACP.

    Just food for thought for any newbie that may be considering a 10mm for the bragging rights and not thinking about some of the realities of such a weapon.

    All you 10mm guys are better men than I.
    My Glock 20 is not noticeably harder to handle than a G21, and the weight is almost the same. The G20's frame really soaks up alot of the recoil, IMO. In fact, my G27 is more uncomfortable (to me) to shoot one handed than the G20 is. The .40 is a snappy round, and the G27 has less to hang on to. The G27 is alot better for me if I shoot it with a G23 mag so I get a bigger grip.
    I DO carry the G20 fairly often if I'm wearing a coat. The G27 goes with me most of the time though. It's easier to hide (more options) and has less physical weight. I really don't find the recoil on the G20 objectionable at all though, even shooting hot DT loads.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    My 4" aluminum 10mm 1911 with full house loads is a dream to shoot. I can shoot it just as fast as my 45s. The myth that the 10mm recoils too much is just that, a myth. What they are saying is that they have sloppy form.

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