My, how times have changed!!!
This is a discussion on My, how times have changed!!! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Funny how we, myself included have become so anal about ballistics etc etc. Wonder if the famous outlaws of yester year had the same mind ...
November 5th, 2007 04:07 PM
My, how times have changed!!!
Funny how we, myself included have become so anal about ballistics etc etc. Wonder if the famous outlaws of yester year had the same mind set? I wonder if Wyatt Earp got some jugs of water to see if his whiz bang hollow point expanded to his liking? Oh, they probably used ball ammunition instead since Hollow Points weren't even around back then. I believe in those days they practiced and practiced shot placement more than anything else?
Just some thoughts...
November 5th, 2007 04:22 PM
A hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .44.
American folk saying
Beware of the man who only owns one gun.
He probably knows how to use it.
American folk saying
Speed's fine but accuracy is final.
Speed is five-sixths smoothness.
Move quickly, shoot carefully.
Take the time you need to make the shot but don't waste any time.
The most important lesson I learned ...
was that the winner of a gunplay usually was the one who took his time.
It's not always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger - and I won't.
"J.B. Books," John Wayne's character in The Shootist
Legitimate, personal confidence in one's own ability is the key to victory. Heart rate, blood pressure, and a host of other unavoidable, psychosomatic, bodily reactions are largely irrelevant. "Anxiety acclimatization" renders them irrelevant.
“Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll
Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!
November 6th, 2007 12:45 PM
In Wyatt Earp's era they probably used non-jacketed lead bullets.
November 6th, 2007 01:47 PM
1943 - 2009
No "probably" about it. That's all they had.
Originally Posted by AutoFan
William Butler "Wild Bill" Hickock carried a brace of 1851 Colt's Navy .36 caliber percussion revolvers. Each night before retiring to bed, he would shoot them dry, then reload with fresh powder & ball to be ready to go the next morning.
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
November 6th, 2007 02:02 PM
While not directly on point to stopping power, modern medicine has a lot to do with why some ammo is viewed as ineffective.
Before the nice things like antibiotics, blood transfusions and emergency trauma care, wounds that today are a trip to the ER, 2 weeks of pills and a little surgery...were fatal.
If you got shot in the torso and the intestines were ruptured, you were likely going to die from peritonitis (I believe that's the correct term...) or infection from clothing being dragged into the wound.
It was terrifying.
In the modern world where people have blowout kits, cell phones, antibiotics and rapid transport to emergency medical care its not uncommon to find a criminal who, while not wanting to get shot again, knows that its not the end of the world, and he will be back to normal in a while.
100 years ago, getting shot was much worse. If you didn't die right away, you had bleeding out to look forward to. If you didn't bleed out, you had infection to look forward to...or even better - amputation of the limb...so when the shop keeper pulled that pocket gun, even if it didn't drop you right their, you know that you stand a serious chance of "bad" if you got shot.
November 6th, 2007 02:40 PM
+1 on the above.
Getting shot was close to a death sentence. Now its not.
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
November 6th, 2007 02:55 PM
I agree that more people today survive being shot, and some are lucky enough to lead normal lives, but if the projectile severs an important nerve, there is no regeneration.
Originally Posted by MitchellCT
Tear up any major organ and it may still 'work', but it will not usually return to 100% functionality.
Sometimes modern medicine is given magical powers that when closely examined aren't really there.
November 6th, 2007 03:22 PM
I'm not sure surviving gunshot wounds is really relevant to stopping a fight though. Wild Bill seemed to have no problem doing so with what we would consider a very anemic pistol round (although imo, all pistol rounds are more or less anemic). It's some good food for thought.
...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller
November 6th, 2007 03:25 PM
Exactly correct on the non-regeneration of tissue (nerve and otherwise). Projectiles blowing-out an inch or more of bone matter is still another problem. But...... nerve grafts and bone grafts are possible and have been done with success. The grafted-in nerve tissue take time to unite with the ends of the intact nerve and the bone grafts are very painful at the donor source (usually the pelvis). Not everything works as it did before, but it works. I know this for a fact in my own life.
Originally Posted by GBS
The Edge ... there's no honest way to describe it. The only ones who know where it is have gone over.
November 6th, 2007 10:37 PM
Larger caliber soft lead bullets of the black powder era did provide some expansion. Yet, as stated above, the prospect of being shot with any type of bullet in the 19th century was a bad deal. Although some hollowpoint ammunition did exist at the time, it came into its own with the advent of smokeless powder. Higher velocities and smaller bullets led to over-penetration issues. The JHP is meant to address this problem. Then, as now, being able to hit the mark is what counts.
November 7th, 2007 02:40 AM
Anal? My life and the lives of my family members make equipment worthy of more than just passing consideration. Ammo included.
Hard to see how the level of attentiveness to relevant factors would change much, from one era to the next. I'm sure that just as many folks blew off the concept, 150 yrs ago. And I'm sure that just as many concerned themselves with having the best equipment they could, given that they, too, got only one trip on the merry-go-round.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
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