Blended Metal Technology

This is a discussion on Blended Metal Technology within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The 5.7 has to use the right ammo to go through a vest. Lots more info at AmmoLab...

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Thread: Blended Metal Technology

  1. #16
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    The 5.7 has to use the right ammo to go through a vest. Lots more info at AmmoLab
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  3. #17
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    More info here and a FWIW a video from LaMas done in 2003: Armed Forces Journal

    I have to wonder, if its that good, why haven't we heard more about it or see it at the local gun shop if it was available in '03?
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  4. #18
    FLM
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    AutoFan, great post. RBCD has been discussed many times on many forums. As AutoFan stated, Stan Bulmer is a snake oil salesman. The ammo performs poorly in standard tests. Old Stan always claims that his ammo is so advanced that those tests just can't adequately test it. If you believe that, I've got some beach property in Kansas for sale.

  5. #19
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    FLM & others

    Mostly what I am interested in is what is being developed in the way of frangible bullets. I am continuing to search the web & research frangible bullets for myself & my own self education. I like to see what is being developed & how they are performing.
    I am highly interested in absolutely non ricocheting bullet types.
    I really don't much care for body armor penetration since I've developed & extensively practiced my own personal defensive shooting style that does not normally require two primary COM hits.
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  6. #20
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    While I would really hope that this ammunition is not used against our LEOs, it will be whether it is available or not. The bad guys will somehow get it. I find the argument that we should keep it from the public to protect officers to be the same one the gun grabbers make about guns being in our hands. Bad guys are using body armor these days and that should concern all of us. And all of us should have the means to defend ourselves against this.

    I think the resolution to this lands in the lap of the courts and the way they handle cases of someone shooting (or shooting at) a police officer. In my opinion, this should be an automatic death penalty. Maybe they would get the idea that they should avoid killing our officers. And I our officers deserve that.

    As for the the rest of the hooplah, "this forum" doesn't test ammunition. That doesn't mean that we can't talk about results of various tests or make our own assumptions and opinions known for people to comment on. If I had a dime for every comment someone had posted here that I didn't agree with I would be a rich man, indeed. That doesn't mean that person is wrong or that I am wrong. It just means we disagree. And, for the record, I don't believe that QK used his moderator rank in the situation. Moderators don't give up their right to opinions or being able to comment. We are all individuals, with individual ideas on different things. Just a simple "Sorry, I disagree" will usually do....
    Bumper
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  7. #21
    FLM
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    I couldn't agree more that it's best to do your own research. In my opinion, this site is the best starting point.
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/tactical.htm

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    ...It is not a good idea these day to remain "Too Closed Minded" & "STUCK" on tried and true old bullet technology.
    I am TRYING to stay "up to date" and on top of it all.
    Our Military, Police, & Air Marshall demands for more effective small arms ammunition & our ongoing domestic "War On Terror" have kicked things into ultra~high~gear concerning Research & Development of new bullet materials & configurations that will be more versatile and effective in more types of confrontational situations.
    My gut feeling is that the next five years are going to be an amazing time for exotic & specialty bullet/cartridge selection.
    OF COURSE...some will be EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE...some will be average & some will "Dud Out" right away.
    Hopefully, this forum will be able to sort out the Trash From The Treasure concerning the new & revolutionary ammunition that will be popping up & WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE right on top of our Personal Self~Defense Game!
    Up-to-date is good, but I wonder how necessary it is for the average civilian CCW to stay abreast of the cutting edge projectile technologies? Are the exotics and specialty ammunitions where we need to be focusing? There are sound reasons for considering pistol-caliber carbines, and choosing calibers and cartridges that are readily available (vs exotic calibers and wildcat cartridges) for self-defense and personal protection. There are good reasons to know what the military is using and plans to use for general issue. There are good reasons to know what LEA's in a given area prefer. It seems more important, to me, for the average CCW to be aware of important advances in bullet and cartridge design that have trickled down from the exotic/special use category to general issue, like improvements in the Golden Sabre design or understanding why bonded jacket designs perform better than older designs, or with what Federal is going to replace the Hydra-Shok line.

    Yes, it is important for us not to become comfortable while technology passes us by, but of necessity, we must remain grounded in the practical. For instance, there are some amazing new shotgun cartridges and technologies available, but they are being restricted to LE. They reduce overpenetration significantly, but cause significant damage in CQB - perfect for home defense. I don't have access to them. I have to rely on traditional ammo, so I'm stuck with buck and slugs. As a result, spending any time on the new exotics, regardless of their promise, is less useful than knowing how the Federal Truball Rifled Slug stands up to a traditional Foster. By its nature, I think that kind of approach weeds out a lot of the "trash" you were talking about.

    There are some very interesting tangents from QK's original post that deserve discussion, too, but in other fora, such as the role of the CCW as first-responder or first line of defense, limiting civilians to sub-premium ammunition, Bumper's assertion that shooting at an officer should result in an automatic death penalty, or the frustration of ammunition that is restricted to LE by distribution not by law.

    I realize that there are a number of LEO's, here. I'm not saying we shouldn't bother with exotics and cutting edge stuff that only LEA's have. I am pointing out that cutting edge is less meaningful for the civilian CCW.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    I'm not saying we shouldn't bother with exotics and cutting edge stuff that only LEA's have. I am pointing out that cutting edge is less meaningful for the civilian CCW.
    While, in large part, I agree there is some definite "odor" to the blended metal info out there, I wouldn't say that "cutting-edge" is less important/relevant to civvies. Mark Wilson, involved in the Tyler shooting, would seem to be a prime example. I would suspect that a mag of the old BAT rounds could well have penetrated Arroyo's armor. Again, this comes down to whether or not we trust the general populace with arms. If you can trust me with a blackpowder, why not a mag fed rifle? "Less dangerous"? Not to the first person hit in the head. Law only controls the law-abiding. Pure truth.

    Do I see myself facing teaming hordes of zombies in Level III? No. Might I see a shooting/robbery-in-progress with armored perps? Odds are fair (though I make it a point to avoid "peak-times/places"). Read up on the Kansas-Missouri conflicts. When the general populace gets PO'd, the burden for LE get lighter ; but (as a society) we would have to recognize that some folks won't be "coming to trial"- we are very reluctant to accept that thinking in these times. Better armament=quicker incapacitation/death=faster conflict resolution.

    In a car-car drive by shooting, could you find a better "resolution load" than an incendiary 12g load through the BG's driver's side window? As it stands, the BG would be in better shape than you would, after the DA finished with you.......(Yes, life in Wichita colored my responsive thinking )

  10. #24
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    Rob72

    Great Post!! Thanks! :unitedsta
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72
    While, in large part, I agree there is some definite "odor" to the blended metal info out there, I wouldn't say that "cutting-edge" is less important/relevant to civvies...
    But the facts remain, that the cutting edge is out of reach to a large part of the gun-owning public, and the general public is NOT trusted with guns even in some so-called "gun-friendly" states like Virginia. Consider what you have to do to get Ranger T's. Sure, there are some great cartridges out there, that would be perfect solutions to some problems, but if you can't get to them, or are unwilling to spend the money being asked for them, then they are less relevant for your purposes. Cutting edge ammo that isn't accessible is, for all intents and purposes, hypothetical. Hypothetical ammo is great, but as long as it remains hypothetical, its value is limited when it comes to deciding what you will train with and carry.

    We are in an arms race, whether we like it or not. For every piece of armor we develop, someone is going to try to come up with ammo (or a new weapon design) to defeat it. As long as we believe in a free society, that means that civilians (good and bad) will seek parity with LE. When we restrict the ammo to which civilians have access, we also limit our ability to defend ourselves against tyranny. But as long as the truth remains that my choices are, in fact, limited, then my philosophical stance has little to do with what I am able to carry on a daily basis.
    - Tom
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  12. #26
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    Consider what you have to do to get Ranger T's
    Drive 5 minutes to my local shop and buy them?

    Chris

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr
    Drive 5 minutes to my local shop and buy them?

    Chris
    Interesting and encouraging. That hasn't been the case, down here, so maybe my experience is uniquely bad.
    - Tom
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    have same problems getting ranger t's have to go to gun show and get raked over the coals

  15. #29
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    Hopefully

    Hopefully, If they develop a better and "Cutting Edge" frangible...then civilian shooters will get it quickly.
    Maybe a hi~tech Sky Marshall type round.
    I'm sure that we'll probably never get a cutting edge newly developed armor piercing. But, I am seriously interested in what is going on with frangible.

  16. #30
    Member Array mtnbkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    Interesting and encouraging. That hasn't been the case, down here, so maybe my experience is uniquely bad.
    Virginia Arms here in Manassas has them on the shelf and ignores the LEO ONLY crap on the box.

    Come on up, stock up, and then visit the NRA range and museum.

    Chris

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