Different Bullets, Different stopping power

This is a discussion on Different Bullets, Different stopping power within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Check this out, read a little bit, but the good stuff are the charts down at the bottom. http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm . Interesting when he says "...there ...

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Thread: Different Bullets, Different stopping power

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    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Different Bullets, Different stopping power

    Check this out, read a little bit, but the good stuff are the charts down at the bottom. http://www.neiassociates.org/caliber.htm. Interesting when he says "...there was often little correlation between the expansion of hollow points and the final result." (MODS: if this has been posted before feel free to delete/slap/and or close)

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    "...there was often little correlation between the expansion of hollow points and the final result."

    If that is true, then why do bullets that have the potential to expand out perform the bullets that can not expand. In every case, JHPs beat FMJs, even in the .380.
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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I'd sure like to see a lot more on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    "...there was often little correlation between the expansion of hollow points and the final result."

    If that is true, then why do bullets that have the potential to expand out perform the bullets that can not expand. In every case, JHPs beat FMJs, even in the .380.
    Exactly. I guess a quality JHP is somehow better than an FMJ, even if it fails to expand? That's what the percentages seem to indicate...
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    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    nice find

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    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
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    "We need to remember that the three most important components of handgun stopping power are: bullet placement, bullet placement, and bullet placement."


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    That ought to be a sticky. The question" what caliber do I need to carry" comes up at least once a week.

    Good info from actual shootings. It doesnt get much better than that.
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    Member Array badmojo's Avatar
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    Great article.
    The author does a very good job of differentiating between fact and opinion. Too often on the internet it seems that people blur the line between the two. The statistics at the bottom of the article interested me and it was enlightening to see this type of data.
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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Evan Marshall's work is a good starting point, and I use to base the sole factors on his book "Handgun Stopping Power"

    I have done a little research and see that he has been criticized a lot through out the gun world.

    I have also come to the realization that certain key points are missing in the studies. i.e. Head shots. I use to be a firm believer in the works; however, as one grows and gets more educated one tends to weigh other factors which are probably more important. (Reliability, Can I shoot this 230 grain whiz bang super expander straight, and can I do it real fast and achieve defensive accuracy?)
    Most people will agree the only way to stop somebody is an electrical shotdown of the CNS, or if you go by the old EMT addage C4 (reffering to vertabra) see no more C5 Still alive.

    I think it presents a good starting point on ammuntion and what you should try if you know nothing about ammo and your trying to figure out what you can control and what functions.

    However, statistics can be manipulated by anybody.

    Example:
    57% of 100 statistical studies are flawed, or do not even remotely resemble the actual sample set of the 43% remaing, 95% percent are manipulated by the people studing them. 50% of those give a false representation of the truth, and 100% of all of them give the people studying what ever it is their studing their opinion and their opinion only.
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    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    Why does a JHP that does not expand demonstrate some statistical superiority over virtually identical FMJ?

    My guess is that the HP does not slip thru flesh as smoothly as a FMJ. IOW a more significant permanent wound channel is created causing more tissue damage and allowing a quicker bleed out.

    Further along the guess channel -- some one recently wrote--
    ''Bullet Placement is King, Penetration is Queen'' and permanent wound channel diameter is 3rd or lower.
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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverkeeper View Post
    Why does a JHP that does not expand demonstrate some statistical superiority over virtually identical FMJ?

    My guess is that the HP does not slip thru flesh as smoothly as a FMJ. IOW a more significant permanent wound channel is created causing more tissue damage and allowing a quicker bleed out.

    Further along the guess channel -- some one recently wrote--
    ''Bullet Placement is King, Penetration is Queen'' and permanent wound channel diameter is 3rd or lower.
    Well, to answer you first question. When a JHP expansds it larger. The reason for expansion is to slow down inside the the body and not exit to reduce collateral damage, and creating a larger permanant crush cavity, thus in iteslf creates a larger temporary cavity etc........ Theres also that whole dump as much energy as possible thing etc.....

    I think of it more like a 747 landing. Throughing out its flaps to slow down as fast as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by riverkeeper View Post
    Further along the guess channel -- some one recently wrote--
    ''Bullet Placement is King, Penetration is Queen'' and permanent wound channel diameter is 3rd or lower.
    As far as the above statement. If this was the case I could take a FMJ and place it in the same spot #1 Bullet placement is king according to your statement, and FMJ penetrates deeper then a HP so therefore it meets your #2 requirment.


    The way I look at it.

    Accuracy is king, the king killed his wife penatration with a well placed shot!
    The Statement is.
    DEAD is DEAD there is NO measure on Lethality, Potential engery tells us a full metal jacket 9mm 115 grain can be lethal.

    The question is.
    Can the operator put the bullet where it ssuppose to go in order to turn its potential energy into lethal kinetic energy?
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    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is ballistics with a twist as seen thru the eyes of a coroner!
    Like to know your thoughts about this article! Here's the site

    http://www.mouseguns.com/deadmeat.htm

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