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About LinkBacksJMHO, but those that use heavy bullets in the 9mm are defeating the very thing that could save their lives. VELOCITY!!!! If you want heavy--get at least a .40.
This is a discussion on Heavier 9mm JHPs within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; JMHO, but those that use heavy bullets in the 9mm are defeating the very thing that could save their lives. VELOCITY!!!! If you want heavy--get ...
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JMHO, but those that use heavy bullets in the 9mm are defeating the very thing that could save their lives. VELOCITY!!!! If you want heavy--get at least a .40.
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Your using an excellent load.
Les Baer 45
Sig Man
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
M.C.R.G.O.
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pistol rounds work when they expand ... i'll use whatever it takes to get them to expand. out of a short barrel, the 147 gr rounds seem to expand more reliably than 124/127 or 115.Originally Posted by coffeecup
remember, no matter what, any pistol round is a compromise.
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Hello everybody, my name is John and I've been a member here for awhile but I don't post much. I've carried different handguns, concealed, for over 20 years and I've privately done a bunch of different testing. I recently did and posted some wet pack tests to compare different 9mm factory ammo for velocity, penetration, and expansion out of a 3" barreled Kahr PM9. The bullet weights are 124 and 147 gr. Please remember that this is a bullet comparison test. For those that don't know, to approximately equate the wet pack penetration numbers to FBI ballistic gelatin standards, you multiply by 3 then divide by 2
http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?topic=2254.0
Here's my $.02 worth.
The 115 gr has to be pushed at +P velocities for adequate penetration, and even then it could be easily deflected.And the recoil pulse is too sharp from a polymer frame pistol.
The 124 gr would benefit from +P velocities during the winter months in heavy clothing areas. Again the felt recoil is sharp. But for the summer or mild climate areas, a good 124 gr. standard pressure round would work for me.
The 147 gr. has shown me, in most cases, the best penetration. It has great expansion.All this from bullets traveling under 1000 fps. And it has a slow drawn out recoil pulse for the least felt recoil for follow up shots.
John
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I just picked up some 147 hydra shocks the other day ( local store was pretty much out of anything else till next shipment ) . I dont feel under gunned with them , but would prefer 124 gd's as a personal preferance . Other than out of my pm9 ( where i like +p or even +p+ due to the short tube ) i really dont worry about the pressure loadings .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
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jgrider: Excellent 1st post and observations! For what it's worth, I agree 100%, and use Winchester's RA9T 147s as my carry load. Thanks.
Nat----"It aint how good you shoot, it's how cool you look doing it." [Fred Sayer 1994]
H&K P7
Colt XS, Star PD
Caracal F
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Thanks Nat
I wanted to pass on what I had.
John
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You know, I've been toying with this issue myself, of whether to switch up from 124 +p's to 149's in my G19, but dang! I was looking at those Doubletap 149+p's, and they're claiming 1135fps and 421 ft/lbs out of their 149+p's from a G17, and only a 15fps drop out of a shorter barrelled G19! That's something like 100 ft/lbs more then some of 9mm Hydrashok's I've looked at, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's at least *approaching* the performance from some of the lesser .40 loads, isn't it? Add to that the fact that they're $25 for 50 instead of $25 for 20 of the Golden Sabres I've been carrying, and I'm pretty much sold. Ordering up a box next paycheck, and so long as they shoot straight and the recoil is still manageable, I think I've found myself a new carry load..!
.40 is fine.
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Griblik, please give us a report when you have tested some of them!
With most of the effective factory 147s running 950-1050fps I would think a steady diet of those would be hard on both the firearm and shooter.
Nat----"It aint how good you shoot, it's how cool you look doing it." [Fred Sayer 1994]
H&K P7
Colt XS, Star PD
Caracal F
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Agreed. Federal 147gr HST too! I've seen a couple of similar bits of information from reputable sources and besides, I rarely disagree with a cupcake!
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Agreed,I'm sure they won't be a 115gr walk in the park, but seems to me like a fellow could make a 9mm as hot as he wanted, and at worst it still couldn't be as punishing as a .40..! Now I'm anxious to find out, after stewing on this all night..! Will fill everybody in as soon as I try 'em.
.40 is fine.
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I've shot the DT 9mm 147gr +P and DT 9mm 124gr +P and Gold Dot 147gr (non "+") out of subcompact 9mms (Sig P239, HK P2000 SK) and don't really notice much a difference in recoil.Griblik, please give us a report when you have tested some of them!
With most of the effective factory 147s running 950-1050fps I would think a steady diet of those would be hard on both the firearm and shooter.
I'm sure there is some, and I admit I'm not overly recoil sensitive, but I really don't see this as much of an issue.
Personally, I've settled on DT 124gr +P. I was thinking about the 147gr +P but then it occurred to me that I'm carrying pretty short barreled firearms and performance wouldn't be quite as good as the published specs. I figured the 124gr would be a good compromise.
-john
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I saw someone mention that the Winchester 147gr JHP in 9mm aren't too good for personal protection. Can someone tell me why? The way I figure it, my pistol, a Beretta Px4 Storm, has a 17 round capacity and I can pop off those 17 rounds fairly quickly. Even if they say they don't penetrate as well as a 124 gr bullet, won't the amount of ammo avaiable do the job? I'm just looking for constructive thoughts on this matter because I plan n getting my CHL in the next few months and want to get an ammo that will do OK if I ever need it. By the way, I live in an apartment community so there's the risk of ammo going through walls and traveling into my neighbor's apartment, and none of us want that, I'm sure.
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For SD loads, I've been referred to this list and I have confidence in these folks doing the testing:
9 mm
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Source: Recommended Pistol Caliber Loads
Last edited by czydj; December 10th, 2007 at 06:35 PM.
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Unfortunately that did not answer my question. Please re-read the question above.
It is to be observed that Right of Self-Defence, arises directly and immediately from the Care of our own Preservation, which Nature recommends to every one. . . , and that this right is so primary, that it cannot be denied on the basis that it is not "expressly set forth.
--- Hugo Grotius
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