Wet Pack Ammo Comparison Tests For Kahr K9 (Take 2)
This is a discussion on Wet Pack Ammo Comparison Tests For Kahr K9 (Take 2) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello again
This is the second set of tests, this time using a Kahr K9. All the same test procedures from the Kahr PM9 tests ...
December 10th, 2007 08:57 PM
Wet Pack Ammo Comparison tests For Kahr K9 (Take 2)
This is the second set of tests, this time using a Kahr K9. All the same test procedures from the Kahr PM9 tests were applied here. With the exception that this wet pack was made longer. What I mean is that instead of a 12” deep wet pack, which would approximately equate to an 18” FBI ballistic gelatin block, I made the pack 18” deep, so as to try to capture possible over penetrations. All the same ammo as with the PM9 was tested.
The pistol used in this test was my wife’s, well used Kahr K9 Elite that was purchased new in 1999. Before getting her the PM9, she carried the K9 everyday when she went out. As a kudo to Kahr, our Kahrs (2 K9’s, 2 PM9’s) have never failed even once in the thousands of rounds through any of them.
The Federal 124 Tactical Bonded (LE9T1) was the first ammo tested. Again these were a disappointment. Both fired rounds went all the way through the 18” of wet pack. The velocities were: 1066.9 fps, and 1092.5 fps out of a 3 ½” polygonal barrel. I find it interesting that Federal states that this round is good for short barrels. Maybe for barriers for LEOs, but not for what most civilians would have to deal with. Some time in the future I’m going to borrow my neighbor’s 4 ½” Glock 17 and try these rounds again. But for me they are useless. If I need to carry a gun bigger than a Kahr, it won’t be a 9mm, I’d carry one of our 1911 style .45's
I just thought of another test I may do with this ammo. I’ll set up a second wet pack at about 6’ behind the first and see what happens. As a civilian, over penetration scares me because of liability and moral reasons.
I found on line, some 135 +P Tactical Bonded (LE9T5) and 147 Tactical Bonded (LE9T2) in the older gray and black boxes. I wonder why Federal stopped making them but still has the 124 Tactical Bonded ?
These are the Federal 124 HST (P9HST1) standard pressure. Now this is more like what works.
The velocities were 1121.8 fps and 1145.1 fps with only a spread of 23.3 fps
The penetrations were 10 5/8” and 10 11/16”.
The diameters were .597” and .605”.
The recovered weights were 124.5 gr. and 124.6 gr.
This is the Federal 147 HST (P9HST2) Again, like I said in the first set of tests “WOW!”
The velocities were 933.2 and 951.1 with only a spread of 17.9 fps
The penetrations were 10” and 10 1/16”
The diameters were .628” and .635”
The recovered weights were 146.8 gr. and 147.1 gr.
If the conversion formula were somewhat accurate, this would approximately equate to 15” penetration into FBI ballistic gelatin.
This is the Winchester 147 RA9T. In this case I fired three rounds because I forgot to turn on the chronograph for the first fired round. As in the previous tests, these are a mystery to me. Again the diameters are measured from two different areas, the widest talon tips and the widest core area.
The velocities were 913.3 fps and 973.7 fps with a big spread of 59.9 fps.
The penetrations were 10 1/2", 10 11/16” and 10 11/16”
The diameters were .612”/.645”, .586”/.657”, and .553”/.664”.
The recovered weights were 141.3 gr., 143.3 gr. and 143.7gr.
As in the previous tests with the Kahr PM9, this ammo had the worst velocity spread and the least recovered weight. But yet it had some of the best penetration, and the best expansion if you measure talon tip to talon tip.
The last bullets tested were the old Winchester 147 SXT controlled expansion. I just retried these out of curiosity. They also over penetrated traveling at 884.0 fps and 922.0 fps. I’ll keep the rest of them for conversation pieces.
Based on the total results, I’ve decided that I’m still undecided between the Fed 147 HST, and the Win RA9T. While carefully peeling back the layers of newsprint so as to get an idea of what the bullet paths looked like, it seemed to me that there was more defined and longer shredding through the Win 147 path.
Fed 124 HST 1145.1 fps
Fed 124 HST 1121.8 fps
Fed 124 Tac 1092.5 fps (over pen.)
Fed 124 Tac 1066.9 fps (over pen.)
Win 147 RA9T 973.7 fps
Fed 147 HST 951.1 fps
Fed 147 HST 933.2 fps
Win 147 SXT 922.0 fps (over pen.)
Win 147 RA9T 913.8 fps
Win 147 SXT 884.0 fps (over pen.)
Win 147 RA9T ?
Fed 124 HST 10 11/16"
Win 147 RA9T 10 11/16"
Win 147 RA9T 10 11/16"
Fed 124 HST 10 5/8"
Win 147 RA9T 10 1/2"
Fed 147 HST 10 1/16"
Fed 147 HST 10"
Win 147 RA9T .553"/.664"
Win 147 RA9T .585"/.657"
Win 147 RA9T .612"/.645"
Fed 147 HST .635"
Fed 147 HST .628"
Fed 124 HST .605"
Fed 124 HST .597"
My observations on the bullet designs for those that may be intertested.
On the Win 147 the jacket peels away from the lead core. There is a section of the jacket petals just before the talon tip that is thicker and helps support the talons to stay extended. If a talon is forced all the way back, the petal cracks at this point. This thicker jacket wall is at the tip of the cavity wall when the bullet is intact. Other than the thicker section of jacket, I think that the Win jacket is thinner than the Fed HST.
WIN 147 RA9T
On the Feds 124gr. and 147 gr.the tip of the jacket unfolds from around the the lead core and as it folds back ,it take the core with it. That's why there's the flower pattern. The jacket petals look like they start almost flat at the core but then where the lead ends, two side walls appear on the petals. (To me they resemble channel iron) and then the walls taper down near the tip. It looks like the HST jacket is thicker than the Win 147. It seems that the 147 has unusually long score lines.
Until more 9mm ammo comes along this is the last of the 9mm tests.
Next I'll be testing .38 specials out of a Smith Titanium J frame and a model 60.
December 13th, 2007 12:43 AM
Since I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong I'm sending the additonal last pics for the previous post
On the Feds 124gr. and 147 gr.the tip of the jacket unfolds from around the the lead core and as it folds back ,it take the core with it. That's why there's the flower pattern. The jacket petals look like they start almost flat at the core but then where the lead ends, two side walls appear on the petals. (To me it resembles channel iron) and then the walls taper down near the tip. It looks like the HST jacket is thicker than the Win 147. It seems that the 147 has unusually long score lines.
Fed 124 HST
December 13th, 2007 12:49 AM
Ditto to my first post (#10) in the other thread on the great job with this ballistic report. I appreciate the information!
Please see my other post for a specific request if you get a chance.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
December 13th, 2007 03:16 AM
Have you tried any testing on the sub-compact models (MK9/MK40)? I'd be interested to see how the expansion would work with a shorter barrel.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
December 13th, 2007 05:35 PM
"Have you tried any testing on the sub-compact models (MK9/MK40)?"
I ran comparison tests for the PM9 at about the same time as these. The MK9 and the PM9 are almost alike. Same slide, same barrel and length. The only difference is that the MK9 is a steel frame and the PM9 is polymer
December 27th, 2007 04:24 AM
Great work here!
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