Why .357SiG?

This is a discussion on Why .357SiG? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay, first off, let me say that the .357 SiG is a completely capable caliber, and this post is not intended to ruffle the feathers ...

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Thread: Why .357SiG?

  1. #1
    Member Array Jason_G's Avatar
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    Why .357SiG?

    Okay, first off, let me say that the .357 SiG is a completely capable caliber, and this post is not intended to ruffle the feathers of the fans of the caliber.

    My question is this though, "why do some people prefer this caliber?"

    Once again, I'm not looking to start a caliber fight, this is an honest question.
    I've never been able to figure this one out. Same for the .25 NAA, and other "necked down" pistol cartridges.
    Since the cartridge is a .40 S&W necked down to accommodate a smaller bullet, it still carries the bulk and has the same magazine capacity as the .40. Also, the penetration of the .357 SiG is not really any different than the .40 S&W from all evidence that I've seen (the picture below is one example). If somebody has proof of significantly better penetration then that would answer my question.
    I know the .357 probably generates more kinetic energy, but KE stats don't really equate to real life results until you get up into rifle velocities.

    So from what I can gather, the .357 is just as bulky as the .40, has about the same penetration, creates a similar temporary wound channel, and makes a slightly smaller permanent wound channel. Atop of that, some folks claim more recoil and noise. I never noticed that there was that much more recoil, but some folks are more sensitive to those things than others.

    So, can anybody explain to me why this caliber is such a popular carry choice?



    TIA,
    Jason

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  3. #2
    Member Array rathos's Avatar
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    Well, mainly because no matter what the gelatin says, when people are shot with this round they stop. That is why its the choice of the Secret Service, and various State Police departments. Although I can say after shooting 300 rounds of this at the range, I no longer think .40 has much kick.
    ‘‘To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.’’

    — George Mason

  4. #3
    Member Array stmcelroy's Avatar
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    Because it closely matches the .357mag which is considered one of the best handgun stopping calibers around.

    It doesn't really do anything better than any other major caliber, but variety is the spice of life and for some they feel safer with a .357sig than another caliber.
    www.RKBAholsters.com

    Check it out for quality reasonably priced leather and kydex Pocket, IWB and OWB Holsters......

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    Member Array rgreenpc's Avatar
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    I am seriously looking at a .357sig as my next purchase,

    I would HOPE the Secret Service would have done their homework on it, and I would assume that it must be trainable to fire.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stmcelroy View Post
    Because it closely matches the .357mag which is considered one of the best handgun stopping calibers around.
    Thats your answer right there. .357SIG is supposed to be .357MAG in a 9mm sized gun.

    I like the caliber and have enjoyed shooting other people's .357SIGs, and if it wasn't so darn expensive I'd own one too.

  7. #6
    Member Array Jason_G's Avatar
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    Well, I know it was designed to come close to matching the .357 magnum, but looking at gelatin, etc., it doesn't really look like it does anything that the .40 S&W doesn't already do. I think I'm missing something.

    Jason

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    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    If you look at that image posted, the .357 has much larger disruption in than the .40 rounds shown. The .357 produces larger diameter and continues much deeper (compare at around 7"-9" deep).

    Realize that this is just a 2D image- in the 3D world, it's about volume. minor changes in cavity diameter are major changed in volume (radius squared)


    One other more obscure benefit of the .357 over the .40 is the inherent feed reliability of the bottleneck cartridge. Chambering a .355" bullet into a .41" chamber is a breeze. If you ever had to shoot a finicky pistol made before 1985, you'll apreciated this fact.

    Also, it is loud..

    The bottleneck also has some great accuracy too. I just put 5 through one ragged hole at 10 yards.

  9. #8
    Member Array Jason_G's Avatar
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    There's not really much difference to speak of in terms of the disruption of the gel between the .40, .45, and .357. The .357 might be just a tad larger than the .40, but not significantly so. There's quite a bit of difference between it and the 9mm though.

    The accuracy and trajectory benefit I might buy. I didn't think about the .357 being a flatter shooter than the .40 until just now. Then again, at handgun distances, it might also be a non-factor.

    Jason

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzlemah View Post

    If you ever had to shoot a finicky pistol made before 1985, you'll apreciated this fact.
    Dam.

    In 1985 I was shooting cap guns and water pistols...

  11. #10
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    .357 Sig ?

    Because you can...

    thats why...
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  12. #11
    Member Array Jason_G's Avatar
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    Dam.

    In 1985 I was shooting cap guns and water pistols...
    LOL, I think I was shooting my Daisy Red Ryder. No, I didn't shoot my eye out .

    Jason

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    a tad larger than the .40, but not significantly so.
    I disagree with 'significant'.... It's a geometry thing and if you aren't into what "R^2" means - and how that gets incredibly large with small changes....

    Don't shoot .357sig, 'sok, more for me :-)

  14. #13
    Member Array Jason_G's Avatar
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    I disagree with 'significant'.... It's a geometry thing and if you aren't into what "R^2" means - and how that gets incredibly large with small changes....
    I understand geometry, but I think it ought to be noted that the big red areas only represent the "temporary channel" that the bullet would create, and are insignificant in terms of stopping potential in comparison to the permanent wound channel (the actual hole that the bullet makes), so sayeth the FBI anyway. The diameter and length of the permanent channel is the most important piece of data in that picture, and there's not much difference, in fact the .357 might be smaller.

    Don't shoot .357sig, 'sok, more for me :-)
    I don't mean any offense or agitation, I'm just trying to understand what makes it stand out from the other calibers in terms of performance. I'm not knocking the caliber either, just trying to understand its place in the midst of the others:

    The 10mm is fast and big, but at the price of more recoil.
    The .45 is slower than the 10mm, but still makes big holes, and with less recoil.
    The 9mm makes smaller holes, but is a very soft shooter.
    The .40 fills the niche between the 9mm and .45 ACP.

    So what makes the .357 Sig unique in terms of performance? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, "what does it do that the others don't do?"
    We see it doesn't penetrate gel any more than the .40, but does it perhaps penetrate hard objects (i.e. glass, plywood, etc.) better than the others? Is that why the Secret Service uses them? Anyone know?

    Jason

  15. #14
    Member Array CAJUN600's Avatar
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    it travels faster than any of the other bullets listed, hence will transfer more energy to the object it hits upon impact, increasing the likelihood it will provide that coveted "knock-down" with less rounds (assuming the shots are well placed, etc, etc, etc)

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    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    So all the Highway Patrol's in the different States and all the various and sundry FED agencies just wasted their time and our tax dollars going for the 357 SIG instead of the 40 S&W ? Is that what ya'll are saying ???

    1. 40 S&W is known as the 40 Small and Weak

    2. 40 S&W is known as a 10mm short.

    3. 40 S&W flips up when shot and the 357 SIG pushes straight back, 357 SIG quicker follow up shots

    4. 40 S&W and 357 SIG more or less the same loudness but they have different pitches - meaning different sounds.

    5. 357 SIG gives better peneration than 40 S&W, in flesh - vehicles - walls - etc.

    6. 357 SIG is a flatter shooter than the 40 S&W.

    7. 357 SIG does not recoil any where near as hard as a 357 MAG.

    8. 357 SIG and 40 S&W recoil is more or less the same.

    As Rule of Thumb:

    in town - 9mm

    outoftown - 357 SIG

    no matter where at - 1 to 2 rifles and 1 to 2 shotguns real close by - arm length usually

    ways carry a BUG or two sometimes

    spare barrel and ammo is 40 S&W , primary is 357 SIG.

    SIG # 1 - GLOCK # 2

    in process testing XD 45 ACP Tactical 5", wait and see, my tests take a year in all climates, modes of carry, various brands of ammo, etc

    your mileage may vary from mine, we have traveled different roads.

    357 SIG round shoots in guns made by SIG but also by GLOCK, XD, some 1911 style's, maybe some more makes and models too.

    and SIG also makes guns in 9, 45, 40 SW, 380.

    do a google on 357 SIG and see what pops up.

    Check out Guns and Ammo - HANDGUNS - FEB/MAR 2008 - P 14-15.

    Fiochhi 357 SIG round Article:

    124 gr truncated cone full metal jacket
    1395 fps - out of a Delta Elite Colt 5" barrel

    - flat shooter
    - penetration

    - test # 1 - 7 feet of water + 28 plastic walls + 2"X4" = all the way through

    - test # 2 - penetrated 54" of gel then stopped by a bullet proof vest

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