Difference between Federal HSTs and Hydra-shoks

Difference between Federal HSTs and Hydra-shoks

This is a discussion on Difference between Federal HSTs and Hydra-shoks within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Does anyone know the difference between HSTs and Hydra-Shoks or are they the same?...

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Thread: Difference between Federal HSTs and Hydra-shoks

  1. #1
    Member Array AFPowerGuy's Avatar
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    Difference between Federal HSTs and Hydra-shoks

    Does anyone know the difference between HSTs and Hydra-Shoks or are they the same?
    Benelli Nova Tactical
    Sig P250 9mm


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    They are very different. HST's are the super expanding line of ammo. They usually expand to over double their original size. I have HST's loaded in my .45. They have the potential to expand to over an inch. Hydra-Shoks are a slightly older hollow point design and are more in line with other run of the mill JHPs.

  3. #3
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    This is from Federal's website.
    I thougth the differnce was one was a little bit more seriously bonded than the other, better weight retention.
    Website gives Okay description but the difference IMHO is slight.


    TACTICAL® BONDED®
    The edge you can carry into any situation.
    When the situation leads to a lethal force encounter, rely on your backup, your experience and our Tactical ammunition. Made exclusively for law enforcement, it achieves accuracy and terminal performance unmatched by any other ammunition today. Tactical is your single, best choice for precision accuracy and barrier penetration. Tactical Handgun offers an extremely accurate hollow point with outstanding weight retention, excellent jacket integrity and consistent 1.5 caliber expansion. It performs exceptionally well in shorter barrels.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TACTICAL® HST®
    The next generation in high performance duty ammunition.
    HST offers consistent expansion and optimum penetration for terminal performance. A specially designed hollow-point tip won’t plug while passing through a variety of barriers and this bullet holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100% weight retention and impressive expansion—it’s the ammunition you’ve been waiting for. SEE EXPANSION BULLET POSTER—INSIDE BACK COVER.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TACTICAL® EFMJ
    EFMJ brings a new standard to bullet expansion technology.
    Federal’s exclusive EFMJ bullet design provides the most consistent expansion and reduced risk of collateral damage. This one-of-a-kind bullet design combines a scored full-metal nose over an internal rubber tip that collapses on impact—not based on hydraulics. Its fully enclosed design means it never fills with barrier material and ensures controlled expansion directly upon impact. A low-flash propellant is ideal for low-light tactical applications, while EFMJ’s bullet profile promotes smooth feeding in automatics. It’s the perfect choice for reliable expansion and penetration—not to mention for agencies that don’t permit hollow point ammunition.



    VS Hydra-Shok®
    The choice of law enforcement agencies nationwide. Federal's unique center-post design delivers controlled expansion, and the
    notched jacket provides efficient energy transfer to penetrate barriers while retaining stopping power. The deep penetration of this
    jacketed bullet satisfies even the FBI's stringent testing requirements.

    Tactical Bonded
    CALIBER GRAINS BULLET STYLE LOAD NO. VELOCITY IN FPS ENERGY IN FT LBS TRAJECTORY test BARREL
    LENGTH
    0 25 50 0 25 50 0 25 50
    9MM LUGER (9X19mm Parabellum +P) 124 TACTICAL HP LE9T1 1160 1110 1070 370 340 315 -0.9 0 -0.9 4
    9MM LUGER (9X19mm Parabellum +P) 135 TACTICAL HP LE9T5 1060 1040 1010 335 320 310 -0.9 0 -1.1 4
    357 SIG 125 TACTICAL HP LE357ST4 1350 1270 1200 505 450 400 -0.9 0 -0.4 4
    40 S&W 180 TACTICAL HP LE40T1 1000 980 960 400 380 365 -0.9 0 -1.4 4
    40 S&W 155 TACTICAL HP LE40T2 1140 1090 1040 445 405 375 -0.9 0 -0.9 4
    40 S&W 165 TACTICAL HP LE40T3 1050 1020 990 405 385 360 -0.9 0 -1.2 4
    45 AUTO +P 230 TACTICAL HP LE45T1 950 930 920 460 445 425 -0.9 0 -1.6 5
    EFMJ=Expanding Full Metal Jacket, HP= Hollow Point. These trajectory tables were calculated by computer using the best available data for each load. Trajectories are representative of the normal behavior of each load at standard conditions 59°F temperature; barometric pressure of 29.53 inches; altitude at sea level. Shooters are cautioned that actual trajectories may differ due to variations in altitude, atmospheric conditions, guns, sights and ammunition. Midrange Trajectory is the maximum bullet rise between muzzle bore and given range when zeroed at given range. Height of bullet trajectory above or below line of sight if zeroed at 100 yards. Sights 1.5 inches above bore line.


    Tactical HST
    CALIBER GRAINS BULLET STYLE LOAD NO. VELOCITY IN FPS ENERGY IN FT LBS TRAJECTORY test BARREL
    LENGTH
    0 25 50 0 25 50 0 25 50
    9 MM LUGER (9X19MM Parabellum) 124 HST HP P9HST1 1150 1100 1060 365 335 310 -0.9 0 -0.9 4
    9 MM LUGER (9X19MM Parabellum) 147 HST HP P9HST2 1000 980 960 325 315 300 -0.9 0 -1.4 4
    9 MM LUGER +P (9X19mm Parabellum +P) 124 HST HP P9HST3 1200 1150 1100 395 360 335 -0.9 0 -0.8 4
    40 S&W 155 HST HP P40HST2 1160 1100 1060 465 420 385 -0.9 0 -0.9 4
    40 S&W 165 HST HP P40HST3 1140 1090 1050 470 435 405 -0.9 0 -0.9 4
    40 S&W 180 HST HP P40HST1 1030 1000 970 420 400 380 -0.9 0 -1.3 4
    45 GAP 230 HST HP P45GHST1 880 870 850 395 380 370 -0.9 0 -2 5
    45 Auto 230 HST HP P45HST2 890 880 860 405 390 380 -0.9 0 -1.9 5
    45 AUTO +P 230 HST HP P45HST1 960 940 920 470 450 435 -0.9 0 -1.6 5
    EFMJ=Expanding Full Metal Jacket, HP= Hollow Point. These trajectory tables were calculated by computer using the best available data for each load. Trajectories are representative of the normal behavior of each load at standard conditions 59°F temperature; barometric pressure of 29.53 inches; altitude at sea level. Shooters are cautioned that actual trajectories may differ due to variations in altitude, atmospheric conditions, guns, sights and ammunition. Midrange Trajectory is the maximum bullet rise between muzzle bore and given range when zeroed at given range. Height of bullet trajectory above or below line of sight if zeroed at 100 yards. Sights 1.5 inches above bore line.


    Tactical EFMJ
    CALIBER GRAINS BULLET STYLE LOAD NO. VELOCITY IN FPS ENERGY IN FT LBS TRAJECTORY test BARREL
    LENGTH
    0 25 50 0 25 50 0 25 50
    9MM LUGER +P 124 EFMJ P9CSP1 1120 1080 1040 345 320 295 -0.9 0 -1 4
    40 S&W 165 EFMJ P40CSP1 1050 1020 990 405 380 360 -0.9 0 -1.2 4
    45 AUTO +P 200 EFMJ P45CSP1 1030 1000 970 470 445 420 -0.9 0 -1.3 5
    EFMJ=Expanding Full Metal Jacket, HP= Hollow Point. These trajectory tables were calculated by computer using the best available data for each load. Trajectories are representative of the normal behavior of each load at standard conditions 59°F temperature; barometric pressure of 29.53 inches; altitude at sea level. Shooters are cautioned that actual trajectories may differ due to variations in altitude, atmospheric conditions, guns, sights and ammunition. Midrange Trajectory is the maximum bullet rise between muzzle bore and given range when zeroed at given range. Height of bullet trajectory above or below line of sight if zeroed at 100 yards. Sights 1.5 inches above bore line.



    FBI test PROTOCAL
    Bare Gelatin
    Shot at 10 Feet

    Heavy Clothing
    Shot at 10 Feet

    Steel*
    2 Pieces of 20 Gauge, Shot at 10 Feet

    Wallboard*
    2 Pieces of 1/2 inch Gypsum Board, Shot at 10 Feet

    Plywood*
    1 Piece of 3/4 Inch AA Fir Plywood, Shot at 10 Feet

    Automobile Glass*
    1 Piece of 1/4 inch Laminated Safety Glass set at a 45° angle with an offset of 15°, Shot at 10 Feet

    Heavy Clothing
    Shot at 20 yards

    Automobile Glass*
    Shot at 20 yards without the 15° Offset

    * Ballistic Gelatin covered with light clothing


    VS. The Regular.

    Jump to: Load Details | Velocity | Energy | Wind Drift | Average-Range | Bullet Images


    Compare Ballistics

    Load Number
    Brand:

    P9HS1
    PREMIUM PERSONAL DEFENSE

    P9HS2
    PREMIUM PERSONAL DEFENSE


    Load Details


    Federal Load No.
    Factory Primer No.
    Caliber
    Bullet Weight
    Grains / Grams
    Bullet style
    Use
    T.B*


    P9HS1
    200
    9mm Luger (9x19mm Parabellum)
    124 / 8.04
    Hydra-Shok JHP
    6
    4


    P9HS2
    200
    9mm Luger (9x19mm Parabellum)
    147 / 9.53
    Hydra-Shok JHP
    6
    4


    Velocity in Feet Per Second


    Muzzle
    25
    50
    75
    100

    P9HS1
    1120
    1070
    1028
    993
    961

    P9HS2
    1000
    976
    953
    933
    914

    Energy in Foot Pounds


    Muzzle
    25
    50
    75
    100

    P9HS1
    345
    315
    291
    271
    255

    P9HS2
    326
    311
    297
    284
    273

    Wind Drift in Inches 10 MPH Crosswind


    25
    50
    75
    100

    P9HS1
    0.3
    1.1
    2.4
    4.1

    P9HS2
    0.1
    0.7
    1.5
    2.6

    Average Range


    25
    50
    75
    100

    P9HS1

    -1.0
    -4.0
    -9.3

    P9HS2

    -1.4
    -5.2
    -11.5
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  4. #4
    New Member Array libertarian's Avatar
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    I seem to recall some testing showing that the hydra-shok rounds tended to get plugged up when shooting through barriers, which was part of the reason Federal redesigned their LE ammo (the other reason, I think, was that the Winchester Ranger was whupping them in sales). LEOs are all about the barrier penetration shots.

    My local sheriff's dept has started to use and test some HST rounds, and they've been very impressed by them.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Hydra Shok

    We did a test on some Hydra Shoks through cloth and some barriers to see if the plugging up myth was true. It's posted here somewhere back a while ago. We couldn't get cloth to wrap around the center post like some had thought would happen. In plywood, everything plugged up no matter what bulet design. The only load that expanded in plywood was the EFMJ (no surprise there). I carryHydra Shok in 9 and .45.
    Last edited by Superhouse 15; January 23rd, 2008 at 01:46 PM. Reason: clarity

  6. #6
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    Somebody had a link in another thread to a field study done on police shootings over the past fifty years. It had .38, .357, 9mm, .40, .45acp, and .45lc data. It charted hundreds of shootings in each of the above calibers. It showed the actual numbers of, and a percentage point number of one shot stops on BG's. It showed the 155gr Hydra shock in .40 cal performed at 96% on the street! This was the highest score in the whole study ( it tied with two loads from the .357). The .45 acp 230 gr. Hydra shock was second at 94%. It is a good read, and it changed my mind about what I shoot. The HST round was too new for the testing.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Hydra Shoks

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-up-cloth.html

    Not the best pics, sorry. Got a new camera for Christmas, though.

    Anyone have any requests? We'll be glad to try stuff. Next up is pistol bullets through chest-mounted magazine pouches insurgent style.

    I personally like a bullet that expands. I don't feel bad not carrying a bonded or deep penetrating bullet. I look at a core and jacket separation as secondary wound paths. I carry a lot of Gold Dot, but in my spare magazines in the hope that I can shoot through obstacles should a gunfight go into the spare magazine phase. I mostly have Hydra Shok or Gold Saber in my guns.

  8. #8
    Member Array AFPowerGuy's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the info guys. I hadn't heard of the expansion problems in the Hydra-Shoks before but sounds like it might be worth looking into. Hopefully I'll get to shoot this weekend to even see if my new Beretta even likes them. I want to try the HST but no one sells them locally and I don't care that much for buying them online. But we'll see how things go, thanks again for the info.
    Benelli Nova Tactical
    Sig P250 9mm

  9. #9
    TyC
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    Find out who your local law enforcement supplier is. I get all my ammo from those guys. Last time I was there they had an order for a couple hundred thousand rounds of HST. Picked up 8, 50 round boxes for $12 a box cause the case had broken open while being moved aorund in the warehouse.
    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I've done a lot of reading on the two, including several different independent tests by police agencies under FBI requirements.

    The Hydra-Shock is falling by the way side due to plugging and a rather smooth expansion (smooth round edge) which has a tendency to push target media (tissue/organs) out of the way and closed up behind, whereas the HST rounds rarely plug and the expansion is huge with sharp edges that cut the target media rather than push making a larger wound track.

    That and for some odd reason the HSTs are about 50% cheaper than the Hydra-Shocks.

    LongRider and one other member have avatars of the HST expanded.

    I've been using the Hyydra-Shocks for the last 15 years, and will be switching to the HST as soon as I can embezzle $60 from the CFO (wife).
    Sticks

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    See also Sheep

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    DICK'S

    Quote Originally Posted by AFPowerGuy View Post
    Thanks for all the info guys. I hadn't heard of the expansion problems in the Hydra-Shoks before but sounds like it might be worth looking into. Hopefully I'll get to shoot this weekend to even see if my new Beretta even likes them. I want to try the HST but no one sells them locally and I don't care that much for buying them online. But we'll see how things go, thanks again for the info.
    Dicks Sporting Goods sell the HST in 20 pack. I to thought they were the same as the Hydra Shoks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmincarmens View Post
    Dicks Sporting Goods sell the HST in 20 pack. I to thought they were the same as the Hydra Shoks.
    Interesting. Dick's here in Indiana doesn't carry pistol ammo, not on the shelf anyway. I called my local shop, and they said since I'm not LEO, their distributor could get in trouble with Federal if they got some for me. I should have been a reserve officer instead of a volunteer firefighter . . . then I could carry my HST on campus!
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmincarmens View Post
    Dicks Sporting Goods sell the HST in 20 pack. I to thought they were the same as the Hydra Shoks.
    I paid $22ish for a 20ct of Hydra-Shocks, and found a 50ct of HST online for $22, It might be a typo, I'll be checking some different online retailers.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #14
    Member Array skvinson's Avatar
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    Not a typo. 50 packs of 9mm HST can be found for $19.

    HOLLOW POINT Ammo : Ammunition To Go

    HST is already preferable b/c of the newer design. Add to that they actually cost LESS. It shouldn't be a hard decision.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skvinson View Post
    Not a typo. 50 packs of 9mm HST can be found for $19.

    HOLLOW POINT Ammo : Ammunition To Go

    HST is already preferable b/c of the newer design. Add to that they actually cost LESS. It shouldn't be a hard decision.
    +1

    Ammo to go is where I buy my HSTs too. They average around $20 a box of 50. A little less for 9mm, a little more for .40 and .45. They are for real, I've already bought and received 150 rounds of .45, 200 rounds of .40 and 100 rounds of 9mm. Now I need more.

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