.380 ACP, FMJ or JHP
In a .32 auto, I'd definately go FMJ for penetration. In a 9mm, I'd definately (and do) go for a JHP. What about .380?
I was looking at Double Tap's 90gr. JHP at 1,000fps from a P3AT. Will a 90gr. bullet at that velocity penetrate, or just immediately expand and throw on the brakes?
I use CorBon JHP in .32acp. I know most people don't think much of this little cartridge. But remember this: World War I was started by a .32 and World War II ended in Europe with a .32.
WWI was triggered when a terrorist shot the heir to the Austrian throne and his wife as they were riding in an open car. Both died.
A .32 is probably not the round the modern shooter would use for such a shot today, but it worked. The shots could not have been point blank. In other words, the range would have been a bit longer than what we think of in terms of a self defense situation today. And the rounds used were most likely unjacketed lead bullets, and not nearly as hot as a modern self-defense round. While neither the Crown Prince nor his wife died instantly, both were incapacitated and died shortly thereafter.
Hitler killed himself with a .32, ending the war in Europe. So for a little round, the .32 has played a major role in history.
As to JHP vs. FMJ, I have never seen ballistics information to suggest that a .32JHP will not penetrate. I have heard people offer that opinion and it seems to be the conventional wisdom. But conventional wisdom is not always right. "You can't loose money investing in internet stocks... real estate is a guaranteed money maker, etc."
A Winchester .32 FMJ round is travelling at 905 fps. A CorBon .32 JHP is travelling at 1050 fps. Sure the CorBon is going to expand, but at that speed it should certainly penetrate. At least I think that it will, and until I can find some testing data that indicates otherwise, that is what I will continue to use.
Golden Saber 102 gr. for the 380.
alternating rounds 380 ball, Jhp,ball, JHP
As far as I have been able to find, the .380 may or may not penetrate and expand. It isn't a 9mmPara., even if it does share the diameter. I load my .380's with "Dutch Loads" of alternating FMJ and Ranger SXT loads; I figure that if either may be effective or either may fail to perform, I'll hedge my bets and hope that both don't fail to perform under the same conditions. Maybe both will work as hoped! Shoot them to the ground. It doesn't matter which ones are working (either, neither, or both!), just keep on shooting until the threat is over, you have no more reloads, or the BG is delayed because he has to dig his way through a mound of hot brass to achieve his original intent.
With the .32, I just go for penetration: FMJ. I used to do the "dutch loads" thing with this one like with the .380 until I found out about the "Semi-Rimmed" brass, and the resulting "Rim-Lock" problem that can result. Above all else, I value dependability of function.
The two loudest sounds in life: "Click" when you expect a Bang, and "Bang" when you don't expect it. AD's and FTF's. I don't know that either one "sucks" more than the other. One can get you killed, and the other can kill unintentially. Personally, I deliberately choose against either one.
I'm using Speer Gold Dot JHP and I'm happy with it because it feeds very nicely.
When I finally shoot this all up I'll probably go for the BuffaloBore.
That's all you want it to do is feed nicely? Then why spend the extra money for Gold Dots?
Because I usually carry a Walther PPK/S which is really not noted for the vast number of different ammo and bullet nose configurations that it will feed reliably 100% the time.
If my Walther won't feed it then I don't need it.
Hey...I'm a poet and don't even know it. :hand5:
Actually, there are other reasons.
One being that Gold Dot (brand) is what my local LEOs carry in their duty firearms and that is one less potential court room hassle out of the way.
I also carry Gold Dot in .45 and I'm impressed with Gold Dot ammunition quality in general. Speer QC is incredible. The Nickel plate also adds some lubricity that cuts down on the friction in feeding in my Walther. Every little bit helps.
Also the Speer is decently hot. The BuffaloBore is a bit hotter.
Because I don't have a ton of faith in the .380 (in the first place) so I'm betting my bones on shot placement and head shots (by preference) if possible.
I am decently satisfied that the Gold Dot will break through front facial bone if I do my part.
That is not to say that other ammo will not but, for the above mentioned reasons I'm comfortable with the Gold Dot.
This link to a lot of .380 ammo tests may help:
KTOG Forum - Links to .380 Ammo Tests
I stager with a JHP in the tube followed in order by a FMJ. I also have the the thought that it may take every round in my P 3AT to do the job, no stopping at double taps, but shooting till the job is done.:image035:
I re-read the report on the '86 FBI shootout as a result of this forum. In following some of the links it finally linked to the FBI chief training officer explaining why they chose the 10mm and what they did to get there.
But in his discussion, he spoke of the different bullets for different calibers and suggested the FMJ for the .380. He said the JHP did not have sufficient penetration in this caliber.
first round is a 90 gr hydro shok, then followed by remington 95 gr fmj. i shot some wet phone books, over 12 inches thick with the hydro shock, remingtom fmj, and speer 90 gr gold dot. the range was approximately four feet. i used my kel tec p3at. all three brands went thru and made good size holes. but i had two gold dot that did not make it, they only went in approximately 10 inches. but come to think about it 10 inches in 12 inches of wet phone books is good.
Buffalo Bore hard lead 100 gr. for my Mustang. 1072 fps - 255.4# me. Good stuff.