Hollow Points for Safety or Extreme Damage

This is a discussion on Hollow Points for Safety or Extreme Damage within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by digitalexplr I see no problem with what she got. She broke into his house - a felony. She was armed - armed ...

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Thread: Hollow Points for Safety or Extreme Damage

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    I see no problem with what she got. She broke into his house - a felony. She was armed - armed criminal action; another felony. Then shot the guy while in the commission of a crime - another felony.
    And THAT'S what the prosecution should focus on: that she was a piece of excrement, low-life criminal who commited a murder. What ammunition she used to do it should matter as much as what color her shoes were.

    If we allow talking monkeys to get away with using that kind of idiotic logic, even if it serves to put away a BG, how long before that idiocy is used against a person defending themselve legally?

    -JT

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Murder and self defense are different and most prosecutors know the difference.
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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    Murder and self defense are different and most prosecutors know the difference.
    True...maybe. Luckily, I live in a state where the BG's family can't bring a civil suit against you once the shooting was deemed justifiable self-defense, so I don't have to worry about what the prosecutor 'knows'.

    -JT

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I can see why the prosecutor might have described her this way. He is trying to paint her as the most evil person he possibly can for the jury's benefit. But if we seriously think about this why would anyone who is loading a weapon that is going to be used to defend their life use anything but the most damaging round they feel they can be competent with? Isn't the application of deadly force (legal or otherwise) supposed to cause extreme damage?
    As far as what I carry, since I moved to Texas I thought I was supposed to get that stuff with the cowboy on the box. Ranger T. That is what the Texas Rangers shoot targets with right?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  6. #35
    Member Array dugo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Do you know any other facts of this case?

    Maybe the prosecutor decided "I'm not going to tell that girl's parents that her killer walked free if I can help it..."

    He/she may have known dam well what JHP were for, but he used the tools available to win a case.

    I'd expect you would want the prosecutor to fight for the victim...or am I mistaken?

    Yes, it can be torn apart by a competent defense attorney...provided the defense attorney is familiar with firearms or can be show the proper information.

    Still, its an effective tactic. Not always a winner, but effective none-the-less.

    If the prosecutor didn't do the homework necessary to know the true story of hollow point ammo, it might be understandable, since prosecutors are over-worked and may have to try a case without being as prepared as we would like. If he/she argued it knowing it was false, however, that should not be excused.

    The prosecutor's job is not to convict by any means. It is to facilitate justice. That does not include misleading the jury. If the prosecutor argued this knowing it was bull, it was a clear violation of his/her oath and duty.
    While we might sympathize with the plight of a prosecutor having to face the family of a victim, it is not ever acceptable to argue a lie in order to win. And, yes, a defense attorney should prepare to dismantle the prosecutor's argument and, hopefully, show that the prosecutor argued a false premise. To be exposed in front of the jury and other court personnel is the least the offending prosecutor should endure for making such an argument.

  7. #36
    Member Array hrufrdr1's Avatar
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    I use hp rounds so they won't go through and through and kill someone else. That, and LEOs carry them.

  8. #37
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    Is there a place to find Ammo for leo?


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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hivoltage View Post
    Why do most of you keep hollow points in your gun?

    We had a murder case locally ( a teenage girl no less ), and the prosecuter kept stressing that the shooter loaded her gun with hollow point bullets to inflict as much damage as possible.

    I use them mostly to control how far the bullet will travel after it hits something, like not going through walls.
    I use them to avoid over-penetration.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Idiotic Prosecutor, who obviously doesn't have a good case and is stretching things to get any points he can ......

    All bullets are made to kill. Period. They aren't made to do anything else, besides punching holes in targets.
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  11. #40
    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Unfortunately too many prosecutors are more ignorant than dirt about firearms and ballistics. Honestly what a lot of them know about weapons comes from TV. A recent case had one of these idiots thinking a semi auto had to have the hammer cocked before every shot SA style.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Hollow points are what my Department requires you to carry!
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  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Because it does the most important job that a bullet has to do, & effectively so - stop a threat.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  14. #43
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    hehe.. Gonna stay away from the proverbial and the hypothetical and just answer. I like FMJs for finicky 45s.. big and slow I'm not worried. Everything else is SJHP if it's available or JHP. (Esp. my magnum wheelguns because I want that extra expansion before the inevitable exit)
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Obligatory Founding Father Quote

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hivoltage View Post
    Why do most of you keep hollow points in your gun?

    We had a murder case locally ( a teenage girl no less ), and the prosecuter kept stressing that the shooter loaded her gun with hollow point bullets to inflict as much damage as possible.

    I use them mostly to control how far the bullet will travel after it hits something, like not going through walls.
    If I were the defendent, and the Prosecution had to reach down in the bag and pull that one out, Id be very optimistic.
    Hollowpoints are an attempt to make a small caliber act like a big caliber. There is more hype to them in the gun world than
    actual value. If you need a bigger bullet diameter in the body, use a bigger caliber.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #45
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    Massad Ayoob stresses that hollow points decrease the likelihood of richochet and over penatration and thus NOT injuring others beside just the BG. Also, hollow points are required by most police forces so if they are effective and safe enough for local police, they should be good for general population. I'm reading one of his books now that tells of a prosecutor doing just the same about the "horrors of hollow points", but they are misinformed. One shot with a hollow point is likely to be less life threatening while more effective than the necessary multiple shots needed with ball ammo to stop an attack.

    I highly recommend his books. I'm currently reading, "Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry" by Massad Ayoob. He gives multiple scenarios and shares experiences of trials he has been expert witness for and testified multiple times. Excellent info. and a very interesting read.

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