Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged) - Page 2

Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged)

This is a discussion on Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AH My mistake,am not talking about Police and public LE but private security. OK, fair enough, but close protection is close protection, ...

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Thread: Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH View Post
    My mistake,am not talking about Police and public LE but private security.
    OK, fair enough, but close protection is close protection, and these agencies do more of it than anyone else, and almost all civilian companies who offer this kind of training model their programs after the USSS/DSS. Can you tell me what companies/trainers are teaching this method? Not a knock or anything, just curious...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    "Dutch Loading" & Extra Magazines

    I was discussing concealed carry with a buddy today, and the topic of carrying extra magazines came up.

    I'm still getting used to my new Springfield Mil-Spec (expect pics and range report next weekend), and when I start carrying it (waiting for leather), I intend to carry two extra magazines.

    My buddy suggested to keep the gun and first spare mag stocked with JHPs as per usual, but the second spare mag to be loaded with FMJs. His logic was that, if you've gone through two clips already, odds are good that you'd need to be able to "punch through" some light cover such as car doors or heavy desks, etc... to get the job done.

    The idea of loading the last two rounds of each magazine as FMJ was also discussed.

    I know there's a potential issue with accuracy/recoil of the two loads being different. You want your loads to all shoot to the same POI and feel about the same, too, right?

    I figure if both loads are the same weight at around the same velocity, say, 230gr at around 950 FPS, the recoil signature shouldn't be noticeably different between the two loads, and only field testing would show if the groupings were similar.

    Does anyone "dutch load" their magazines or carry an extra clip of FMJ? Just wondering.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.

    PS - Mods, feel free to move this to Ammo or etc... if you think I posted in the wrong area.
    Last edited by Pete Zaria; March 29th, 2008 at 08:57 PM. Reason: fixed typos
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Ummm, carry extra mags? OK, I usually do with my keltec, but only occasionally with my xd. All carry mags have the same ammo, I just can't imagine needing a 2nd extra mag and not being able to extricate myself.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    It sounds unnecessary to me. I carry the same load in all my mags - if I need to shoot through some cover to hit a BG, I'm a cop, and I'll get the rifle out of my trunk. Or I'm me in a OMGWTF/TEOTWAWKI situation and I'll just aim for one of the holes my first 16 rounds made...

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  5. #20
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    That used to be my standard practice when I carried a 1911. I did it for two reasons. One you mentioned, barrier penetration. The second was reliability. Although the 1911s I carried were pretty reliable, I would have the occasional malfunction with just about any jhp I used. Usually a failure to feed. Not so with fmj. I figured if I needed a reload, I'd be in a bad situation and I wanted the most reliable ammo I could get. I still think there is some merit in doing so but I haven't done it in a while. I haven't carried a 1911 in a while either.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    I used to do that as well when I carried a 1911. I still do it from time to time depending upon the handgun I carry. As long as the weight of the bullet is the same, POI should be pretty spot on between the ammo types.

    I'd say away from mixing the ammo in mags though.

    You're already carrying something for a situation that's statistically very unlikely to happen. Imo, it is rather prudent to plan for the worst of those situations, since you're already prepared for something that's not likely to occur.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  7. #22
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    I've carried 1911's for many years, and always carried 1 extra mag. Both mags were full of JHP's. I rotate three 1911's in my carry stable, and all three will flawlessly feed anything I put through them. If I had any function concerns with any potential carry piece, I wouldn't consider carrying it until those concerns were resolved.

    Just my opinion, and we all know how much that's worth ...
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  8. #23
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    Just my opinion, but if you try to complicate things too much, it will make CCW a hassle, and will not be conducive to carry. Under stress will you remember which magazine has what in it???

    Load what feeds well, shoot often, and carry everyday you can.


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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    I have no problem with carrying two differant loads, and even two mags. But why not stagger your rounds in the mag "JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ...etc. That should solve any problems. Just my .03 cents.
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    My gun can carry 17+1. If I ever allowed myself to get into a situation where going through 18 rounds did not eliminate a threat, I either:

    1) Joined the military and got shipped to a Afghanistan or Iraq (and somehow lost use of my friggin' rifle)
    2) Joined law enforcement and got a REALLY crappy assignment (and didn't get issued a friggin' rifle)
    3) ROYALLY screwed up (and I'm a civilian walking the streets without a friggin' rifle)

    #1 and #2 are extremely unlikely to happen. #3 is fairly unlikely to happen, now that I'm somewhat older and slightly more wiser.

    -JT

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    My gun can carry 17+1. If I ever allowed myself to get into a situation where going through 18 rounds did not eliminate a threat, I either:

    1) Joined the military and got shipped to a Afghanistan or Iraq (and somehow lost use of my friggin' rifle)
    2) Joined law enforcement and got a REALLY crappy assignment (and didn't get issued a friggin' rifle)
    3) ROYALLY screwed up (and I'm a civilian walking the streets without a friggin' rifle)

    #1 and #2 are extremely unlikely to happen. #3 is fairly unlikely to happen, now that I'm somewhat older and slightly more wiser.

    -JT
    So, what do you do when your mag fails? Which is the weakest component of an autoloading pistol. I'd always recommend at least one easy to get to extra mag for that reason alone. If you haven't seen a mag fail, it is imo just a matter of time.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  12. #27
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    Somebody far older and wiser than I once remarked that if you get to a reload you've either not planned well or you need a lot of shooting practice.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Mag failure was not a factor in my comments because it was not a factor in the original post:

    His logic was that, if you've gone through two clips already, odds are good that you'd need to be able to "punch through" some light cover such as car doors or heavy desks, etc...
    Also, I specified:

    ...where going through 18 rounds did not eliminate a threat...
    At no time did I offer an opinion on whether or not one should carry an extra mag. If you can carry an extra mag comfortably, go for it. The choice or need for someone to carry an extra mag is all up to the individual shooter.

    -JT

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyIamToday View Post
    So, what do you do when your mag fails? Which is the weakest component of an autoloading pistol. I'd always recommend at least one easy to get to extra mag for that reason alone. If you haven't seen a mag fail, it is imo just a matter of time.

  14. #29
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    Well, I will be honest and say that the last 2 rounds of my xd are fmj while the rest if jhp. I did this intially because i got a bit overzealous at the range and fired my carry too much of my carry ammo and did not have enough to properly fill the magazine when I left the range. I was 2 rounds short of jhp. I took 2 rounds of my target ammo and put them into my magazine first and then topped off with what I had left of my carry ammo which gave my a full magazine plus one in the chamber. I thought about what I had done, decided to keep it. I figure if I fire all my jhp ammo and it doesn't stop the threat, then my last 2 rounds will be fmj and hopefully that will work as a last ditch effort. If 8 rounds of jhp don't work then I see no harm done in trying 2 rounds of fmj. I carry an xd .40 and it eats anything. I practice at the range with this set-up many times and have never had an issue, my xd eats anything so since it orks at the range, then it works for me.
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  15. #30
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    Don't forget an extra mag of incindiary, and you might want to alternate the FMJ with tracers, just in case. You never know what you are going to run into out there.

    I think I'll stick with JHP. If I am needing to shoot through a door, that means the BG has taken cover, and I can:
    A. Get away
    B. Take better cover
    C. Get to a rifle
    D. Go ahead and give up and become part of the zombie invasion.
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