Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged)

This is a discussion on Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; FMJ is not AP. With the quality bonded ammunition available today, some of which being purpose-built to offer superior barrier penetratration while retaining a good ...

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 43 of 43

Thread: Cocktail mix in your magazines (Merged)

  1. #31
    Member Array Blackhawk6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    370
    FMJ is not AP. With the quality bonded ammunition available today, some of which being purpose-built to offer superior barrier penetratration while retaining a good degree of terminal performance, I fail to see the value in loading FMJ for anything other than practice. Perhaps 20 years ago the case was different, but not today.

    The WWB you pick up at Wal-Mart really does not compare to rounds like Federal's 230-grain +P Tactical Bonded (LE45T1) or Winchester's 230-grain Bonded (RA45B). Both of provide enhanced barrier penetration and good expansion in soft targets as well.

    Select the right tool for the job. If your particular circumstances dictate that the threats you are likely to encounter will be behind hard cover, select a premium bonded round such as the aforementioned.

    Discussions about the need to mix ammunition in magazines or carry magazines of "special" ammunition strike me as unnecessary attempts to create complexity.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    774
    Not necessary.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  4. #33
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,418
    I posted this once before here.

    __________________________________________________ __________________

    My view of this practice is that it is of dubious value. I've encountered the practice many times, both on forums and with gun owners I have known.

    Choosing to load one's weapon with a smörgåsbord of ammunition types seems to indicate that one is insecure with one's ability to effectively use the weapon when called for in an emergency situation and that one is indecisive about one's ammunition choice. I've not heard nor seen any convincing reason to mix up ammunition in a repeating weapon for a civilian user. The military has done it for many years, using tracers, ammor piercing, incendiaries, etc. I can't see a valid application for home defense or concealed carry purposes.

    I can see some REAL problems with this method of loading weapons. Does one really need the additional concern of keeping up with which type of ammunition is "up next" when stressed with the realization that one is involved in a defensive shooting situation? Will the actual application of lethal force really depend on the exact sequential delivery of the chosen loads? Will the sequence in which the ammunition is loaded properly address each and every defensive situation that one could face? A concern of the semi-auto pistol might be that its user could have an elevated risk of malfunction with different loads in the same magazine.

    I've been acquainted with a number of law enforcement officers who were knowledgeable gun cranks as well and aware of the myriad types of high performance ammunition available. Though their duties include drug busts and forcible entry into lawbreakers' lairs, to a man they don't choose to load their weapons with more than a single type of ammunition. None of them carry the more esoteric premium Glaser, Hydrashock, etc. either.

    When someone begins to regale me with the reasons they alternate loads in their revolver's cylinder or semi-auto's magazine between "Atomic Annie's All-Annihilating ACP Ammo" and "Mighty Mo's Mutilitating Missiles of Megadeath" I mentally fade out.

    I would suggest that one test several likely looking ammunition candidates for function, first and foremost. Then perform whatever expansion or penetration tests one may desire. Make a decision and go with it. Expend enough time to acquire skill to accurately place shots on target and practice to retain that skill. Shot-placement is far more important than what kind of antics the bullet may or may not perform. I take a dim view of expanding handgun bullets but that is because I haven't tested any since the mid 1980's, and the ones I tried before that time didn't expand reliably in my non-tests. My bad. I should avail myself of some of the newer technology now available in expanding handgun bullet designs. I like healthy loads with sharp shouldered SWC's in revolvers or good ol' 230 grain round nose in the .45 ACP. I've spent the past 10 years stoking my defensive handguns with factory ammunition because of the litigation bugaboo addressed in my first concealed carry class in 1995. I'm about to return to assembling my own handloaded defensive ammunition because I can do a better job than can the ammo plants. I've never spent $15.00 on some blister pack of six rounds of whiz-bang specialty ammo and won't be.

    A really dangerous practice in my view is loading a few "snakeshot" loads in one's home defense weapon. Most folks who do this claim that they will only wound the assailant with the first shot(s) and have the "good stuff" in reserve. Some seem to think that they can be more certain of hitting an assailant with the pattern that is thrown. These folks are relying on the shot load to break off an attack with less chance of greatly harming the assailant. This represents a charitable view towards the assailant but is risky. These loads are paltry when compared to a shotgun, with thin, patchy patterns of very small shot. Keep a handgun loaded with them for snakes in the flowerbed if you must but load the household defense handgun with something more substantial.

    I gained a measure of confidence in my ability to effectively operate a handgun under stress when I began competing in shooting events that included a required reload and featured rapid-fire and timed fire. In my case high-power rifle shooting was of great help but regular participation in bullseye pistol competition would be beneficial as would the action pistol events. Early in my high-power career I got flustered over mandatory reloads in a rapid-fire stage. I even got flustered while preparing during the three-minute prep time before the stages. Once confidence was established that I could preform under stress it transferred to a feeling of overall ability to use weapons. Military training would certainly be helpful and many of the best and coolest shots I know have a military background. We all need to acquire and maintain confidence in our ability to effectively use a weapon when it is vital that we do so. Shooting sports competition is the best way that I can recommend to gain that confidence.

    I hope I'm never faced with the decision to pull the trigger on another human being. The incident that causes me to do so will be grave in the extreme.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    737
    Thanks for the responses to my posted (and now merged) thread, guys.

    Please note that I wasn't supporting this idea, merely asking your opinions of it. I've decided against "dutch-loading" the magazines, but I'm still considering keeping the third (and last) mag loaded with FMJ. I'll be doing some research on the Bonded rounds that Blackhawk6 mentioned.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,087
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    Mag failure was not a factor in my comments because it was not a factor in the original post:



    Also, I specified:



    At no time did I offer an opinion on whether or not one should carry an extra mag. If you can carry an extra mag comfortably, go for it. The choice or need for someone to carry an extra mag is all up to the individual shooter.

    -JT
    By that logic your one magazine statement is irrelevant since the topic was about carrying extra magazines. While it was something of a tangent, I try to go out of my way to recommend people that pack with an auto-loader bring another magazine. I've seen several pistol mags fail at ranges and even in the sandbox to not do so.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    When in LE i carried a mag of hp in the gun , a mag of hp in the mag carrier and a mag of ball in the mag carrier . The mag of ball was for possible barricades as well as to dispatch road wounded wildelife/cattle . In the latter not real uncommon useage it was simply cheaper than hp ammo and normally in smaller depts we had to buy our ammo .
    Now that i am ccw my loadout has not changed a bit tho the pistols i carry have gotten smaller and lighter over the years lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  8. #37
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,663
    I run two JHPs, two FMJs, an AP, an API, an API-T, and then finish up with a few APFSDSDUs* just for good measure. Seems to get the job done...



    *Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,133
    roflmao
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I run two JHPs, two FMJs, an AP, an API, an API-T, and then finish up with a few APFSDSDUs* just for good measure. Seems to get the job done...



    *Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium
    No KTW rounds?

  11. #40
    1943 - 2009
    Array Captain Crunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    10,371
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I run two JHPs, two FMJs, an AP, an API, an API-T, and then finish up with a few APFSDSDUs* just for good measure. Seems to get the job done...



    *Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilised Discarding Sabot Depleted Uranium
    Sounds like you might know these guys.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...andgunner.html

    Here's what these "experts" had to say about staggered loading:

    The first is their "mix & match" concept, or loading a magazine with dissimilar ammunition for maximum effects. The book's example shows a staggered column 14 round mag, loaded thus: (top to bottom). 2 shotshells, followed by 2 JHPs, then 4 star point peelers (whatever they are), then 2 light weight penetrators, followed by 2 heavy weight penetrators, then a tracer round, then the last round in the mag is another heavy weight penetrator.

    And how does one compensate for the different points of impact of this Heinz 57 variety? Simple. Just know how much or how little front sight blade to hold up at any given distance.

    Say you are up against a BG behind cover, so you need to engage him with a heavy weight penetrator, but these are buried 10 rounds deep in your mag. What to do? You can rack the slide, ejecting your first 10 rounds on the ground (method A), or you can blast away and when your heavy weight penetrator comes up, aim carefully (method B). Yes, these guys are serious about this.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  12. #41
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,663
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    No KTW rounds?
    No, but I think I have a few FTW rounds...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #42
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    Sounds like you might know these guys.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...andgunner.html

    Here's what these "experts" had to say about staggered loading:
    Oy vey...

    You know, there's a lot to be said about having the right tool for the job, but the handgun is the weapon of compromise. You can't make it all things to all people for all situations, and the more you try, the more complicated you make things. Complicated is generally BAD when discussing lethal encounters. Keep it simply, folks - load a modern, top quality round that does what you think needs to be done for the majority of the situations that you think you will face, and become GOOD with that weapon/ammo combo. This will serve you in much better stead than trying to carry twenty ammo types in order to be "ready" for any situation...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  14. #43
    New Member Array stevewonderful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Desoto Missouri
    Posts
    1
    I would agree that for standard calibers such as the 9, 40, 45 pistols, you should keep your load standard. But in the case of mouse guns such as the keltec 32acp I carry, I alternate Silvertip with FMJ. I want to be sure of reaching the vitals. The Silvertip may or may not penetrate far enough.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Pro Mag Magazines for the Sig P 238
    By Albee4ty5 in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: September 30th, 2010, 09:09 PM
  2. Just Magazines....
    By AVIVIII in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: December 8th, 2008, 03:10 PM
  3. Cocktail in your wheel gun
    By Sleepnheat in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: July 26th, 2008, 05:52 PM
  4. The New WILSON 1911 Magazines: Merged
    By QKShooter in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: December 15th, 2007, 04:36 PM
  5. Cocktail Ammo in Magazines?
    By Sig229 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: June 29th, 2007, 03:44 PM

Search tags for this page

are magazine cocktails bad for your gun

,

mix fmj and hp in the same magazine

Click on a term to search for related topics.