Creating a new 9mm

This is a discussion on Creating a new 9mm within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you look at actual diameters, the .380, .357, .38 and 9mm are all essentially the same. The only difference is in bullet weight and ...

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Thread: Creating a new 9mm

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Creating a new 9mm

    If you look at actual diameters, the .380, .357, .38 and 9mm are all essentially the same. The only difference is in bullet weight and the speed in which the cartridge travels.

    There are some who think heavier and slower is better than smaller and faster. The .45 is a heavy and slow projectile. The 9mm is a lighter and faster projectile. Although I am not certain on this, I am thinking that 9 mm bullet is shorter and there is more gunpowder in the case allowing it to go faster.

    Why wouldn't it be possible to create a heavier 9mm bullet, put less gunpowder in the casing and get the heavier and slower characteristics from the new cartridge? (I am assuming we use the same cartridge diameter so it will work in current handguns.)

    I know there are a lot of factors involved in cartridge creation. Someone has had to have experimented with this idea. Why is this not an option?
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    Its been done.
    The 147 grain bullet has been loaded to subsonic velocitys. This was done originally to increase functional reliability in suppressed weapons.

    It works...buts its still just a 9mm hole.

    Think about it. A subsonic 230 grain bullet with a larger diameter or a subsonic 147 with a smaller diameter.
    Which one hits harder?

    Physics prove that the .45 is better.

    Of course, either one will kill you.
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    Member Array nuparadigm's Avatar
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    Your question bears upon what is known in exterior ballistics as "sectional density". For the lay person, SD is a mathematical formula deriving a specific number that is generally used to equate that bullets ability to penetrate through a given medium. This formula is based on mass and the bullets cross-sectional area.

    It is calculated with this formula:

    Sectional Density =(Bullet wt. in grains)
    7000 x ((bullet dia. In inches) x (bullet dia. In inches))

    e.g. a 30 caliber bullet weighing 165 gr.

    165gr / 7000 x ((.308 x .308)) = 165 / 664.048 = .248

    This formula is based on mass and the bullets cross-sectional area. It does not take into account the shape of the bullet, the materials the bullet is made from, the construction of the bullet nor the velocity that this bullet will traveling on contacting your intended target. Thus any bullet with the same weight and diameter will have the same Sectional Density.

    What you're looking for is increased sectional density with about the same bearing surface as lighter weight projectiles. As HotGuns has said, it's already been done with the 147 gr. 9X19mm bullet.
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    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Its been done.
    The 147 grain bullet has been loaded to subsonic velocitys. This was done originally to increase functional reliability in suppressed weapons.

    It works...buts its still just a 9mm hole.

    Think about it. A subsonic 230 grain bullet with a larger diameter or a subsonic 147 with a smaller diameter.
    Which one hits harder?

    Physics prove that the .45 is better.

    Of course, either one will kill you.
    i started to mention that too,since i use 9mm,147gr. in my carry gun.
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    New Member Array SAXDNINE's Avatar
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    So I guess another analogy would be being hit with a one ton car at 60 mph vs a two ton car at 30 mph?

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    Member Array RichardB's Avatar
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    There used to be 200 gn .38 specials. In the real world they did not sucessfully compete for police uses after the new HP- faster and lighter - bullets became available. A very high speed 38 is also known as the 357 magnum?

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    Member Array mchaley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardB View Post
    There used to be 200 gn .38 specials. In the real world they did not sucessfully compete for police uses after the new HP- faster and lighter - bullets became available. A very high speed 38 is also known as the 357 magnum?
    Negative. They're not the same diameter.
    Also another reason for lighter/faster is gravity. Heavy/slow will drop sooner and faster than lighter/faster. For 10 feet and under that wont matter though.

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    Member Array RichardB's Avatar
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    The 357 magnum is a much hotter version of the 38 special. The cartridge is longer so that it can't be inserted into 38 special handguns. The bullet diameters for both are .357 inches. The 9mm Luger/Parabellum's diameter is .355 inches; the .380's is .356 inches.

    This is a link to a website that is hosted by a retired police officer and discusses the 200 gn bullet. StoppingPower.net Forums - Western / Winchester .38 special 200 gr RN

    At hand gun range with newer gun powders, I don't think the drop of a heavy bullet would be significant enough to require much consideration.

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    Member Array vashooter's Avatar
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    Of course, if light, fast bullets are better than light slow bullets, than wouldn't it be best to have heavy, fast bullets? i.e. 45 ACP 230 gr +P rounds? Or the 10mm Auto?
    It's all a trade game - you go big, heavy, & fast you're going to have more recoil and less controlability as well as less capacity in the magazine/cylinder. I think that with modern design hollow points, any round from 9mm on up will get the job done with proper shot placement - hopefully because in the end analysis, a pistol round is a poor defensive weapon no matter how you look at it compared to a rifle round or shotgun.

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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vashooter View Post
    Of course, if light, fast bullets are better than light slow bullets, than wouldn't it be best to have heavy, fast bullets? i.e. 45 ACP 230 gr +P rounds? Or the 10mm Auto?
    Sure, but who could handel the recoil, quickly for a double tap.

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    Sure, but who could handel the recoil, quickly for a double tap.
    Its all in training and practice. Most people could eventually master them...if they would.
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Its all in training and practice. Most people could eventually master them...if they would.
    Iíll have to agree with you.

    But Iím sure you know from experience itís a whole lot easier to fire multi rounds, from a 9 mm and stay on target than it is a 357, or 45.

    It is for me, and trained and qualified with all the above.

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    But I’m sure you know from experience it’s a whole lot easier to fire multi rounds, from a 9 mm and stay on target than it is a 357, or 45.
    It is without a doubt.

    but...

    in the big scheme of things, it really wont matter much.

    Timed double taps with a .45 or a .357 arent that much longer than that with a 9mm...usually only a difference of tenths of a second. While it may seem alot faster with a 9 than with a .45, the target will never know the difference.
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