Federal HST vs, Hydra-Shock pics - .40s&w

This is a discussion on Federal HST vs, Hydra-Shock pics - .40s&w within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by delray48209 So, are we talking about which bullet kills the best? No, we are talking about the effectiveness in stopping a threat. ...

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Thread: Federal HST vs, Hydra-Shock pics - .40s&w

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delray48209 View Post
    So, are we talking about which bullet kills the best?
    No, we are talking about the effectiveness in stopping a threat.

    The objective is not to kill, only to stop the threat, and using the firearm only as a last resort.

    For those that have had feed problems, check your chamber. My buddy was having the same problem with his CZ 40B and it turned out to be a small blemish in the topside of his chamber. It would only cycle Hordanary (sp) ammo. A thorough cleaning and it is no longer a pickey eater.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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  3. #32
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    No, we are talking about the effectiveness in stopping a threat.

    The objective is not to kill, only to stop the threat, and using the firearm only as a last resort.
    Perfect answer, IMO there is no doubt that a dose of 230 gr. HST out of my XD.45 compact will cause enough discomfort in any assailant that they will want to immediately cease whatever bad behaviour they are engaged in. If not there are 10 more plus the spare 13 round mag(s) that will make them stop if needed. My sincerest hope is that no one dies and the BG gets hurt just enough to make him stop and regret ever wanting to harm me or mine

    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    Make sure to test these HST's in your firearm ensuring they cycle properly. I ordered 2 boxes of HST (230 gr, .45) from ammuntiontogo.com. When testing these I had several feeding problems (about 5) in a box of 50. I have the SA XD45 Compact. Ordered some Double Tap 230 and 185 gr Gold Dots to try out (These look like they are pretty potent as well, if not more so!)
    I have exactly 288 rounds of 230 gr. HST through my XD.45 compact with nary a failure of any kind. The remaining 62 rounds out of the seven boxes I got from Ammunition To Go! are in my 10 round carry mag and four 13 round back up mags. No I don't pack them all but they are available if need be. Wonder if something else is going on with your XD? BTW should have gotten the 500 round option its alot cheaper.


    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    I'm carrying the Ranger Talons in everything these days. Thanks so much for the great pictures
    I used carry Rangers but they are so hard to get. I started to do some research for a alternative. Than, saw the pics on the links posted at ******* Technicians from Hell Ballistics Pics and read some other research. The more I read the more I liked HST. Stick's conclusions are typical. HST expand consistently and reliably through most everything they are shot through. Rangers are a not as consistent and are a tad less effective over all IMO. Don't get me wrong Rangers are very good but HST are excellent, Remington Golden Saber are right behind HST. All three will most likely get the job done
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    Make sure to test these HST's in your firearm ensuring they cycle properly. I ordered 2 boxes of HST (230 gr, .45) from ammuntiontogo. When testing these I had several feeding problems (about 5) in a box of 50. I have the SA XD45 Compact. Ordered some Double Tap 230 and 185 gr Gold Dots to try out (These look like they are pretty potent as well, if not more so!)
    I put about 300 rounds of HST 230gr JHP through my XD45 service without any problems.

  6. #35
    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    I put about 300 rounds of HST 230gr JHP through my XD45 service without any problems.
    I wonder if anything going on with my XD? No problems at all with the WWB FMJ target ammo. Didn't have any problems until I shot the HST.
    I spoke to a rep there and was told to put at least 500 ball through it?

    I should have that now or close to it. I got the Double Tap ammo today in 230 and 185 gr. Speer Gold Dot. Haven't got to test them yet, maybe this weekend.

    I think we are splitting hairs on these rounds. I think a 230 gr, whether Gold Dot (Double Tap higher velocity than Speers round), the HST, or the Remington Golden Saber are all going to be about the same in effectiveness. I am just leary of those HST's now, even though I still have several. I would hate to NEED them and get a FTF issue. Wait BG let me fix this!

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    I wonder if anything going on with my XD? No problems at all with the WWB FMJ target ammo. Didn't have any problems until I shot the HST.
    I spoke to a rep there and was told to put at least 500 ball through it?

    I should have that now or close to it. I got the Double Tap ammo today in 230 and 185 gr. Speer Gold Dot. Haven't got to test them yet, maybe this weekend.

    I think we are splitting hairs on these rounds. I think a 230 gr, whether Gold Dot (Double Tap higher velocity than Speers round), the HST, or the Remington Golden Saber are all going to be about the same in effectiveness. I am just leary of those HST's now, even though I still have several. I would hate to NEED them and get a FTF issue. Wait BG let me fix this!
    Well, this thread was initially just a comparison between Federal Hydra Shocks and HST in .40 S&W. For me the HST is going to be my SD round. I have not shot any other types of SD round, and do not see a reason to. There have been enough "Official and Controlled" tests performed on the various SD rounds and for whatever reason, I prefer Federal. I saw for myself what I needed to. Enough penetration without over penetration, and even complete expansion without jacket separation (which I did see on the Hydra Shocks).

    I may have the same problem with mine since I only fired one HST, but money is tight and I am not going to smoke $100 in SD loads to see if there is a problem. I have run 5 different types of ball ammo through my BE in practice (2k rounds), including some Armscor once fired reloads and have not had one single FTF, FTE, Stovepipe or any other issue. EVERY round that I have dropped the hammer on has fired, ejected some 10 feet to the right rear, and cycled the next round.

    My last practice session gave me experience with "Crap, forgot to load" or "Magazine empty" that I am confident that the motor functions are going to move properly to smoothly and efficiently correct the problem. The next session will involve snap caps for a Fail to Fire simulation. I am not sure I want to intentionally damage a round to cause a FTE or Fail to Feed (maybe a spent case).
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Well, this thread was initially just a comparison between Federal Hydra Shocks and HST in .40 S&W. For me the HST is going to be my SD round. I have not shot any other types of SD round, and do not see a reason to. There have been enough "Official and Controlled" tests performed on the various SD rounds and for whatever reason, I prefer Federal. I saw for myself what I needed to. Enough penetration without over penetration, and even complete expansion without jacket separation (which I did see on the Hydra Shocks).

    I may have the same problem with mine since I only fired one HST, but money is tight and I am not going to smoke $100 in SD loads to see if there is a problem. I have run 5 different types of ball ammo through my BE in practice (2k rounds), including some Armscor once fired reloads and have not had one single FTF, FTE, Stovepipe or any other issue. EVERY round that I have dropped the hammer on has fired, ejected some 10 feet to the right rear, and cycled the next round.

    My last practice session gave me experience with "Crap, forgot to load" or "Magazine empty" that I am confident that the motor functions are going to move properly to smoothly and efficiently correct the problem. The next session will involve snap caps for a Fail to Fire simulation. I am not sure I want to intentionally damage a round to cause a FTE or Fail to Feed (maybe a spent case).
    I totally agree with u here. HST does appear to be one of the better, or if not the BEST SD round. I truly want this round to work, and I am not in one way conferring that they are not great rounds. I will continue to test these in my XD.

    My area of the problem lies in the fact that I am problems with these rounds. It might just be my XD. Say if the use of force is needed and warranted, I would hate to get 1 or 2 rounds off and have a malfunction. I would be better off with ANY round, even ball to utilize the full magazine. Not saying they WILL NOT work, but the risk is there. I fired a box, and had several issues, FTE and stovepipes (about 5 or 10% of rounds fired). So FOR ME it would make better sense to have the capacity to put 14 rounds of Gold Dots or Remington GS on target than to run the risk of using the HST (maybe a better round) and encountering problems.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    I totally agree with u here. HST does appear to be one of the better, or if not the BEST SD round. I truly want this round to work, and I am not in one way conferring that they are not great rounds. I will continue to test these in my XD.

    My area of the problem lies in the fact that I am problems with these rounds. It might just be my XD. Say if the use of force is needed and warranted, I would hate to get 1 or 2 rounds off and have a malfunction. I would be better off with ANY round, even ball to utilize the full magazine. Not saying they WILL NOT work, but the risk is there. I fired a box, and had several issues, FTE and stovepipes (about 5 or 10% of rounds fired). So FOR ME it would make better sense to have the capacity to put 14 rounds of Gold Dots or Remington GS on target than to run the risk of using the HST (maybe a better round) and encountering problems.
    Went out today and shot several rounds of the Double Tap and more of the HST's. No problem with any of the rounds, even the HST. May have been just a "need to break in the pistol" thing as I did not even have a single problem with the HST.

    The 230 Gold Dot Doubletap is a VERY accurate round. Think they would all hurt!

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I may have the same problem with mine since I only fired one HST, but money is tight and I am not going to smoke $100 in SD loads to see if there is a problem.
    I do get that. It is one of the reasons I am slow to change carry rounds., It costs me to be willing to bet my family's life on a round's performance. After all isn't that we are doing? Betting the lives of those we love and care about most in that world that we, our weapons and ammo are as effective as possible? I want to, need to, know that my ammo works perfectly in my gun. I shoot as many of my carry rounds as I can reasonably afford. The norm is about 250 rounds after I know the pistol is broken in and free of any quirks. Even if it is fifty rounds at a time, I want to be absolutely sure there is no issues between my carry rounds and my gun. Also, as different rounds do perform differently in different guns. I want to know exactly how a round performs in my gun. Yeah it costs. It may I have to forego something else, but IMO it is worth it. Than I always practice with a like rounds i.e. 230 grain ,45 is what I carry, so I practice with 230 grain .45. If that day ever comes I want to be as familiar, comfortable and most of all confident with my guns as humanly possible. I will know I have done due diligence i.e. everything possible to be ready and beat Murphy.

    Quote Originally Posted by hinkleid View Post
    Went out today and shot several rounds of the Double Tap and more of the HST's. No problem with any of the rounds, even the HST. May have been just a "need to break in the pistol" thing as I did not even have a single problem with the HST.

    The 230 Gold Dot Doubletap is a VERY accurate round. Think they would all hurt!
    +1 on both counts. After break in your XD should eat everything your feed it. I think that as long as a round feeds & fires consistently in your gun you can not go too wrong with any of the premium name brand SD rounds. The only difference may very well be purely psychological, i.e. that we are confident the ammo we are using is the best available. When it hits the fan is not the time for doubts, we will need all the confidence we can muster. That said I do think HST will hurt the most. Sticks's pics help confirm that. As does every HST test or comparison of HST with other ammo, I have seen.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  11. #40
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    After posting Sticks pic on a THR thread. I decided to follow Sticks fine example and I did my own tests. Using my XD.45 compact (4 inch barrel) from 15 feet into three one gallon milk jugs. I had 15 jugs for five tests. Every one of the rounds looked identical to the other. HST remains the most consistent expanding & penetrating and most accurate round. After the test I shot up a box for practice. For a total of 588 HST rounds through my XD without a single failure of any kind. 62 rounds are now loaded into my XD mags and 1 box left. So it looks like time to buy more ammo, though Brazer Brass 230 grain shoots enough like the HST to be a excellent practice round.

    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    After posting Sticks pic on a THR thread. I decided to follow Sticks fine example and I did my own tests. Using my XD.45 compact (4 inch barrel) from 15 feet into three one gallon milk jugs. I had 15 jugs for five tests. Every one of the rounds looked identical to the other. HST remains the most consistent expanding & penetrating and most accurate round...
    So, how many jugs before they stopped? I am curious to the comparison of the two rounds. Obviously yours cover the quarter and then some, whereas the .40 almost did.

    Right now I am bummed, I cannot find my little trophies. I misplaced the darn things.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    I carry HST in 230grn+P 45ACP and 124 grn 9mm,I'm shooting the 9mm out of a keltec P11 and don't think the +p will be as manageable ,I might be wrong but good shot placement + good ammo =good results
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    So, how many jugs before they stopped? I am curious to the comparison of the two rounds. Obviously yours cover the quarter and then some, whereas the .40 almost did.

    Right now I am bummed, I cannot find my little trophies. I misplaced the darn things.
    On three of them the bullet made it into the third jug. On the first two the bullet went through two jugs and put a big dent in the third and hit them with enough force that the cap broke apart like the water blasted through the top. In all five shots the first jug looks like it just exploded. The .45 was just barely larger than a quarter the tips went just past the edge not really much bigger than your .40 Imagining what that would look like going through human flesh is just plain creepy. Thinking about being hit with one of these makes my skin crawl. Still want to do some tests with a bullet tube but I have to wait now that I just spent a bunch on more ammo. Ordered some Rangers for my wifes Bersa too, so will be testing those too soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I might be wrong but good shot placement + good ammo =good results
    Well I for one am hoping you are right or I am an idiot
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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    Thanks to those who posted info on the Federal HST's.

    I've made two orders already of HST's, and I expect many more to come.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    Thanks to those who posted info on the Federal HST's.

    I've made two orders already of HST's, and I expect many more to come.
    Expensive suckers but not nearly as bad as some of the other premium sounds. Which I do not think perform as well. So I suppose a good deal all things considered. I was thinking of doing a group buy but even at 500 rounds through Ammunition To Go the savings are not that great. They do have I think 250 round packages of .380 Remington Golden Sabers for $65 which is a great deal IMO. But I had already ordered Rangers for the wifes Bersa. May still pick those up though depending on how the Rangers look after I test a few rounds. I did like the Golden Sabers in .45 almost as much as the HST.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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