165 grain vs 180 grain

[KrewsControl]

Thanks for all the replies. I also agree with the shot placement and tatctics comments. Thats why I am going to the range this morning and practce slow drawing and putting one shot in the targets COM, reholstering and doing it again. Programming muscle memory. Just like to experiment with things sometimes. lol Laters.

KrewsControl

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ExSoldier]

I believe even Colonel Cooper has trashed various calibers on the basis they weren't up to snuff on more than one occassion. There's a reason even the most skilled hunters don't hunt buffalo with a .243. The cartridge has got to be up to the job.

Actually one of the last of the Great White (African) Hunters from the turn of the last century (1800s - 1900s), Karamojo Bell, IIRC or maybe Major Selous (For whom the famed Selous Scouts were named) took nearly all of the large dangerous game on that continent with a 6mm which is a 243. Took elephant and rhino with eyeball shots on a regular basis.

[Euclidean]

Well there you go. I hereby introduce Euclidean's Law.

Euclidean's Law: Anything speculated by the poster Euclidean will eventually be proven total crap in reality at some point in time.

But seriously, I'm honestly shocked that there's an anatomical weakness in those big animals that allows for penetration of such a small round, that and I feel it's an unfair comparison. Self defense is not a sporting game where we get to carefully set up and choose our shots.

What's funny is I've had this same debate before in real life, and the people always telling me that I might as well use a .22 as anything else all tend to carry .45 ACP chambered firearms. So it's okay for them to use a real service caliber with adequate power, but me, I should just stick to pea shooters...

The more I learn about the dynamics of these situations from what others tell me, I come to three conclusions:

1. If you can't connect, you're sunk. A miss with a .45 ACP is just as ineffective as a miss with a .38 Special. A badly placed shot might as well be considered a miss.

2. If you can connect and you don't take the opportunity to do as much damage as you can with what you have to work with, you may very well be ******* your own life away.

3. Tack driving accuracy is not the goal of the combat shooter. The goal is to be consistently able to hit meaningful targets under a variety of conditions. A good combat shooter is someone who can put it in the COM regardless of whether or not the target is moving, regardless of whether or not the shooter is moving, regardless of lighting conditions, etc.

The trouble is this is all so much easier said than done... you can work your whole life on it and never get it right.

[ExSoldier]

Well there you go. I hereby introduce Euclidean's Law.

Euclidean's Law: Anything speculated by the poster Euclidean will eventually be proven total crap in reality at some point in time.

But seriously, I'm honestly shocked that there's an anatomical weakness in those big animals that allows for penetration of such a small round, that and I feel it's an unfair comparison. Self defense is not a sporting game where we get to carefully set up and choose our shots.

What's funny is I've had this same debate before in real life, and the people always telling me that I might as well use a .22 as anything else all tend to carry .45 ACP chambered firearms. So it's okay for them to use a real service caliber with adequate power, but me, I should just stick to pea shooters...

The more I learn about the dynamics of these situations from what others tell me, I come to three conclusions:

1. If you can't connect, you're sunk. A miss with a .45 ACP is just as ineffective as a miss with a .38 Special. A badly placed shot might as well be considered a miss. ExSoldier762:Here I disagree. A badly placed 45 is still going to induce greater shock than a badly placed ANYTHING smaller.

2. If you can connect and you don't take the opportunity to do as much damage as you can with what you have to work with, you may very well be ******* your own life away.

3. Tack driving accuracy is not the goal of the combat shooter. The goal is to be consistently able to hit meaningful targets under a variety of conditions. A good combat shooter is someone who can put it in the COM regardless of whether or not the target is moving, regardless of whether or not the shooter is moving, regardless of lighting conditions, etc.

The trouble is this is all so much easier said than done... you can work your whole life on it and never get it right.

Your number three is so good and so correct I couldn't have ever said it better. In fact I may make the phrase a part of my CCW Lesson Plans.

Euc, if you work your whole life on it, you may not get it perfect, but you'll be waaaaaay ahead of 99.9999% of the rest of the planet and thereby far more capable of winning the day, when it comes right down to survival.

[jdsumner]

From a reply to a similar question asked a couple of months ago:

Ok, I'm gonna stick my neck out here and probably get it lobbed off!
I am gonna assume we're talking self defense loads, right? And in this case, self defense agains 2 legged critters. So, I'm again gonna assume that there's a 90+% chance we aint ever gonna get into a shoot out. In the event of the remaining 10% coming to fruition, I'm gonna say the exchange will occur within bad breath distances. That being the case, I'd say our attacker wont know the difference between any of the bullet wieghts out of any of the guns. If he notices at all.
Select a round that functions reliabley in your gun, and prints groups at 25' or less at point of aim. Learn where that load prints a few increments of 10' behind that and carry a spare mag loaded with the same. Leaving the muzzle is easy for the bullet, the rest is up to you.

Dan

[MartinBlank]

I've noticed a decrease in accuracy when shooting 180 grain, in both my 96 and 9000. I stick with 165 grain.

[srfl]

My fed agency issues the Speer 165 grain GDJHPs....which is ok with me. I get a case or two at time to take home with me for training....so I'm used to it's recoil impulse through my duty SIGARMS P229.