Another shotgun HD load

This is a discussion on Another shotgun HD load within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was in a group discussion about what is the best shotgun HD load. One person said #7 shot. I said 00 Buck. The last ...

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Thread: Another shotgun HD load

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Another shotgun HD load

    I was in a group discussion about what is the best shotgun HD load. One person said #7 shot. I said 00 Buck. The last guy chimed in with #4. Here is his rational.

    #7 - not enough effective stopping power
    00 Buck - over penetration. Will probably end up with several BBs in the next room or next house
    #4 - Compromise between the two. At inside the home distances, has enough stopping power yet will not penetrate a wall should you miss.

    Any comments.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I've seen game hit with 4 shot and if somebody's wearing heavy clothing might not penetrate enough to hit vitals
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
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    Interesting question, and a little bit of related info can be found at the Box 'o Truth

    I've patterned both #4 Buck and .00 Buck, both 2 and 3/4 inch loads, out of a 20" barrel. There wasn't much of a difference, and if anything, the #4 seemed to spread out a little bit more, which could be useful for home defense purposes.
    As a side note, #4 Buck is cheaper than .00 loads or slugs in local sporting goods stores.

    One of the beautiful things about a pump action shotgun is that it will load almost anything you feed it, and "dutch loading" won't cause nearly the point-of-aim vs point-of-impact problem that it does in a handgun. So consider keeping the first two or three shells 2&3/4" #4 buck, and follow it up with a few 3" magnum .00's. That's what I've got in mine

    In all honesty, it's probably a moot point. Anything heavier than birdshot, from a 12 gauge shotgun at close range, is going to be devastating. I doubt the coroner, let alone the BG, is really going to know or care what you shot him with. Even through civilian-available body armor, I would imagine the 3,000+ ft/lb of energy from a 12ga shotgun shell at close range would break ribs.

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    Pete Zaria.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    In all honesty, it's probably a moot point. Anything heavier than birdshot, from a 12 gauge shotgun at close range, is going to be devastating.
    Agreed...and yet time and time again despite all the imperical data from every possible kind of test, I read about someone loading birdshot in their shotgun for SD. You can't fix stupid of course, but I'm determined to try!! If you're that concerned about over penatration, you'd probably be better off picking up a baseball bat or just giving him a good butt stroke with it. Sense I have no such issues personally, I use 00buck. It's been a proven load and has been the standard for decades. Nobody's built a better mouse trap yet IMHO. (except maybe 000, but for me the 1 extra pellet and inch and 1/2 extra penatration just isn't worth all that extra kick) That said, I too believe that #4 or #1 would certainly be sufficient.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Array itschuck's Avatar
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    Anyone ever hit a pheasant at close range?? Not much left when it happens.
    I have remington high speed steel shot #4 in my 870. I truely would hate to be on the recieving end at 15ft from the muzzle.
    Current collection: Too many according to the wife...

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Polyshok ammo is a unique addition to the shotgunner's arsenal. Frank Borelli has written a review of this round here...

    http://www.borelliconsulting.com/eva...r/polyshok.htm

    Unfortunately, unless you're LE or military, it is difficult to get the opportunity to try this out.

    This is the only thing I keep in my 870 under the bed. It is a massively lethal load that behaves like a liquid...basically, all kinetic energy is transferred into the widest surface area possible, so penetration is minimal but damage is maximized.

    I shot an refridgerator with it and the door promply fell off. Some Mounties use this round in Canada to stop bear and moose. Check out the films to see this round in action!
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Back in the old days, I used #6 for the first two in my Ithaca 37.

    These (more enlightened?) days, the 870 HD has 2 rds. 00 Buck followed by 4 slugs.
    Regards, T Bone.


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  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post
    Polyshok ammo is a unique addition to the shotgunner's arsenal. Frank Borelli has written a review of this round here...

    http://www.borelliconsulting.com/eva...r/polyshok.htm

    Unfortunately, unless you're LE or military, it is difficult to get the opportunity to try this out.

    This is the only thing I keep in my 870 under the bed. It is a massively lethal load that behaves like a liquid...basically, all kinetic energy is transferred into the widest surface area possible, so penetration is minimal but damage is maximized.

    I shot an refridgerator with it and the door promply fell off. Some Mounties use this round in Canada to stop bear and moose. Check out the films to see this round in action!

    If I'm anything, I'm skeptical...I just read that article, linked to their site...read it...checked out the vids, and I have to admit that I'm more than impressed. What that round does to gelaton is almost criminal. Also the fact that even though it didn't penatrate the body armor, it devestated the concrete behind it is very encouraging. It seems there may be at long last, a worthy remedy for over-penatration. I'd love to see some carcass test results.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Big difference between #4 shot and #4 Buck - be sure you are getting what you want. I personally wouldn't use #4 - shot or Buck - due to inadequate penetration. I'd be happy with 1 Buck or 0 Buck, but its harder to find, so my HD shotgun is loaded with 00 and I'm perfectly happy with that.

    Austin

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    Member Array K4Kimber's Avatar
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    Can't find the links to the video!

    None of the links I tried could come up with a file attached. Can you point me to the video link you used?

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Go to the link...scroll down and click onto polyshok online...then click on tactical demos.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K4Kimber View Post
    None of the links I tried could come up with a file attached. Can you point me to the video link you used?
    Doesn't work if you use Firefox. You have to use IE.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    The shotgun is a low tech equivalent of a submachine gun.

    It puts a lot of lead on target per trigger pull, and does it more cost effectively than most other weapons.

    For home defense, I see the shotgun as an ambush weapon. It defends stairways and choke points.

    If someone bursts through the door right now, without warning, I'll be using a 9mm.

    If I hear they messing around with the door trying to force it, the shotgun.

    I use federal 000 or 00 buck for home defense. At the ranges the shotgun will be employed, I can't afford to use anything lighter.

    My max distance for shooting at home is 15 yards, and that is from front door to back door.

    More likely it is going to be used to defend a stairwell or an entry way at under 7 yards. In that usage, I better hit whatever I need to, and hit it HARD.

    I'm not worried about over penetration. By the time the shot burns through the bad guy, the dry wall, insulation, siding, sails through the air and hits the neighbor's house, even if it hits the window it isn't going to have that much energy left.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    The shotgun is a low tech equivalent of a submachine gun.

    It puts a lot of lead on target per trigger pull, and does it more cost effectively than most other weapons.

    For home defense, I see the shotgun as an ambush weapon. It defends stairways and choke points.

    If someone bursts through the door right now, without warning, I'll be using a 9mm.

    If I hear they messing around with the door trying to force it, the shotgun.

    I use federal 000 or 00 buck for home defense. At the ranges the shotgun will be employed, I can't afford to use anything lighter.

    My max distance for shooting at home is 15 yards, and that is from front door to back door.

    More likely it is going to be used to defend a stairwell or an entry way at under 7 yards. In that usage, I better hit whatever I need to, and hit it HARD.

    I'm not worried about over penetration. By the time the shot burns through the bad guy, the dry wall, insulation, siding, sails through the air and hits the neighbor's house, even if it hits the window it isn't going to have that much energy left.
    We have to agree to disagree on this one, chum. My handgun is only to get me to my shotgun in an HD situation.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  16. #15
    Member Array echo5tango's Avatar
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    when i took awerbuck's shotgun 1 class, one of the things he imprinted very quickly was DO NOT DUTCH LOAD! i keep mine stoked with 00 buck and slugs in the side saddle.

    as far as handgun vs. shotgun in the home, if you have the choice why wouldn't you choose the superior firepower of a shotgun? do you like putting yourself at a disadvantage?

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