Ranger Talon vs. HST?

Ranger Talon vs. HST?

This is a discussion on Ranger Talon vs. HST? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Any thoughts on 9mm 124 gr. +P Winchester Ranger Talon vs. the same in Federal HST? Thanks....

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Thread: Ranger Talon vs. HST?

  1. #1
    Member Array Air,Land&Sea's Avatar
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    Ranger Talon vs. HST?

    Any thoughts on 9mm 124 gr. +P Winchester Ranger Talon vs. the same in Federal HST?
    Thanks.
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    Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    IMHO,

    Run a few boxes of each through your gun and figure out which ones function the best.

    Reason: Your comparisent is really down to personal preference, both are excelent SD cartridges, and there are so closely linked that its going to come down to shot placement, and reliability of the cartridges, rather making a determination on a cartridge made by Winchester vs Federal.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty much an equal proposition. I use the Winchester simply because that's the duty load for a heckuva lot law enforcement agencies, not the least of which seems to be the Texas Rangers. At least that's the word I got when I went out to the Ranger Museum in WAco a few years ago. But I get some feedback on such things from friends of mine recently retired from the Special Operations community. So that's good enough for me. Oddly though is my #1 carry choice for here in South Florida and only for use in weather where I'm not likely to find a heavy jacket needed. I carry nothing but MagSafes in my H&K P30 which is now my EDC (Every Day Carry) gun. I don't want to run the risk of the extremely rare over penetration scenario or even worse, and extremely likely the MISS I might suffer with a sequential bounce hit on an innocent bystander. I couldn't live with that. The MagSafe simply powders when it hits anything solid so there are no risks there.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Member Array Air,Land&Sea's Avatar
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    Is +P generally not a benefit out of short barrels like a PM9 or does every little bit potentially help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Air,Land&Sea View Post
    Is +P generally not a benefit out of short barrels like a PM9 or does every little bit potentially help?
    If you can hit just as well with it as the non +P I say stay with the +P if you loose some control then stay with the regular.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I use standard 124 grn HST in my 9mm and 230 +P in my 45's
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I once heard a similar argument in favor of a model 19 357 magnum with a 2" barrel over a 38+P. The magnum will kick like Tennessee "White Lightning" and sound like the Crack of Doom but it will generate (even with the short barrel) far more foot pounds of energy that the more sedate 38 +P but I think that one thing you have to take into account is the muzzle flash that might be blinding at night. On the up side, such a tremendous muzzle blast would cause an extreme "avulsion" of the skin if used point blank or at contact. An avulsion is like a huge RIP. So shove the gun into the bad guys gut and the blast might come out his back. That's what I call a "fight stopper!"
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I once heard a similar argument in favor of a model 19 357 magnum with a 2" barrel over a 38+P. The magnum will kick like Tennessee "White Lightning" and sound like the Crack of Doom but it will generate (even with the short barrel) far more foot pounds of energy that the more sedate 38 +P but I think that one thing you have to take into account is the muzzle flash that might be blinding at night. On the up side, such a tremendous muzzle blast would cause an extreme "avulsion" of the skin if used point blank or at contact. An avulsion is like a huge RIP. So shove the gun into the bad guys gut and the blast might come out his back. That's what I call a "fight stopper!"
    That is very graphic and disturbing,I guarantee you any gun you fire into a person at point blank range will cause a lot of powder gases etc. to enter the wound cavity creating a potential for a really nasty infection if they live,but to fire that close would mean you are literally in a hand2hand situation and could possibly be disarmed or have the shot deflected before you get a shot off,besides cleaning the gun afterwards would require detail stripping and the fact you may not get the gun back for up to a year or more while it's being investigated could ruin the finish
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Whichever one is cheaper. Both are fantastic defensive loads.

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    From the tests I have seen the HST will expand more but penetrate less. The rangers will penetrate more with less expansion. In some tests I have seen the HST does not penetrate enough. I would go with the rangers that is my choice.
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    Ex Member Array TacticalCompact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    besides cleaning the gun afterwards would require detail stripping and the fact you may not get the gun back for up to a year or more while it's being investigated could ruin the finish

    The fact that you'd be worried about something like the finish after sending muzzle flash through someone's body is disturbing, duk... lol

  12. #12
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    .....to fire that close would mean you are literally in a hand2hand situation and could possibly be disarmed or have the shot deflected before you get a shot off, besides cleaning the gun afterwards would require detail stripping...
    Well .... ummmmmm.... YUP.

    A Hand 2 Hand is exactly the scenario I was referring to and that is exactly what you are going to have if you are carrying any snubnosed weapon. When I carry my M642 S&W snubbie I do so in a Mika pocket holster and I do so with the knowledge that if it gets pulled it will be in response to an in your face situation.

    I figure the max hit range for any snubbie under combat conditions is about 6 - 10 FEET max.

    So if I take a giant stride inside his defensive perimeter and shove my gun right into his gut I can only pull the trigger maybe twice before all that gooey drippy "stuff" gums up the works. Unless there are multiple attackers and the other guy is stupid enough to hang around... you should be okay.

    I was trained that in such a situation you want to get close so that it becomes difficult to be effective with hands or weapons used in the offense against you. Defensive tactics (Aikido) aren't so hampered. I trained for that and I'm well aware of the techniques.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  13. #13
    Member Array Air,Land&Sea's Avatar
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    I think they made a movie about what happens when someone faces hand-to-hand with me - "Pray For Death". I'm just say'in. Don't shoot the messenger.
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