Need Recommendations For .380 Carry Ammo

This is a discussion on Need Recommendations For .380 Carry Ammo within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Why don't you try the Hyrdra Shock AND the Power Ball by Glaser? link: Pow'RBall by Glaser, LLC. you have the FMJ feed but the ...

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Thread: Need Recommendations For .380 Carry Ammo

  1. #31
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    Why don't you try the Hyrdra Shock AND the Power Ball by Glaser? link: Pow'RBall by Glaser, LLC. you have the FMJ feed but the tip is pretty well protected and does do well in penetration.
    Vern
    http://Taurus45ACP.com
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    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

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  3. #32
    Member Array Coldwarvet's Avatar
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    I just put some 102 gr JHP Golden Sabres through my PPK/S and was pretty surprised how much more accurate they were than the FMJ Win. I've been practicing with. Feed perfectly, too.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I use Cor Bon in my Bersa Thunder. I tried Magtech Guardian Gold but didn't like the expansion in the water test I did.

    They have fed reliably and I get good ballistics and expansion from them in the water test I did with them.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhouse 15 View Post
    We did a bit of testing in wet newspaper covered with cloth.
    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    In my less than scientific tests expansion has been consistent and reliable and even with only 6" of penetration, that is still enough to reach vitals
    Quote Originally Posted by Fmr18z View Post
    After reading the results of quite a few penetration tests (gel, wet pack, etc) for the .380, and doing my own tests
    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I use Cor Bon in my Bersa Thunder. I tried Magtech Guardian Gold but didn't like the expansion in the water test I did.

    Did any of you gentlemen take any pics? Can you post them? Preferably side by side so we can compare. Thankx
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  6. #35
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    Pictures? No need to re-invent a wheel. Take a look at this site: terminal ballistics tests with diagrams AND pictures of resulting bullets recovered. MANY calibers besides .380.

    Your welcome.
    Vern
    http://Taurus45ACP.com
    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post

    Did any of you gentlemen take any pics? Can you post them? Preferably side by side so we can compare. Thankx
    Mine were posted in a thread over a year ago. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...results-2.html

    I don't know if I have the pictures still or not, but apparently attachments from that long ago are not available on the server for this forum, and the computer I had them stored on took a dump and I have yet to retrieve the data and put on another computer.

    The .380 round has been discussed many times previously here.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  8. #37
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    BuffaloBore they do extensive ammo testing of everything out there. They have some interesting "common sense" reading on their site.
    Their ammo is always pretty doggone HOT and they always seem to kick their various loadings up a notch.
    Their .380+P is nice and it's Flash Suppressed.

    Interesting read from the BB site:

    The 380 auto inhabits a valuable and useful place in our society, mostly because of the easily concealable, tiny pistols chambered for it.
    HOWEVER, because of the very limited size of the cartridge, it is plagued with limited power and therefore most of the existing ammo in 380 auto suffers from not being reliable as a man-stopper.
    We’ve studied and played with nearly all of the existing available 380 ammo and find it wanting as a reliable means of self defense, especially against a large, insane, drugged up/pain free, determined attacker.

    Here’s the problem.
    The current 380 auto frangible ammo delivers a large amount of surface trauma, but lacks serious penetration.
    For example, if you shot me or another sane man in the face with modern frangible 380 ammo, it would blow off a big portion of my cheek and send a few teeth down my throat, I would undoubtedly fall to the ground in shock and pain, but I would be very much alive and functional if I could get past the shock and pain as that frangible bullet would have stopped some where inside my face, never making it to my brain.
    However, if you shot a drugged up maniac in the face with that same frangible 380 ammo and blew half his cheek off, he would keep right on coming because he is insane and is not thinking like you or I.
    Plus, he is likely pain free and fear free and wont know that half his cheek is missing and if he did know, he would not care.
    So whatever 380 ammo you shoot him in the face with, had better go through his face and blow his brain stem out the back of his head, because only a CNS (central nervous system) hit with a 380 is going to stop him.
    Likewise, a torso hit to the sternum needs to penetrate deep enough to blow all the way through his spine in order to shut him down spontaneously.
    If you fail to shut him down instantly, you and your loved ones are going to have to find a way to survive while you wait for him to bleed out and pass out.
    The best chance of survival for you and your family is to shut down the attacker instantly.
    So, we’ve designed a few 380 auto +P loads to keep you and your loved ones alive under the worst of scenarios.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I have settled on the DoubleTap God Dots. Velocity from the stubby P3AT barrel is 1000fps, and penetration and expansion are impressive. Best of all, it is priced low enough to allow a lot of practice with my carry load.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    I have a Kel-Tec P3-AT which is almost identical to the Ruger LCP. I think this information would apply equally to both.

    I have looked at all these .380 tests (check them out for yourself).
    KTOG Forum - Links to .380 Ammo tests

    My conclusion is that I now carry a mix of Santa Barbara TCMJ and Remington Golden Saber JHP.

    Here's why...
    KTOG Forum - Ammunition and Tactics for the Kel-Tec P-3AT.

    Bobo
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Remington 102-gr. Golden Saber penetrates only 6". I just use flat tip FMJs. 9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense
    I'm assuming the 6" penetration you're referring to is wet pack, which equals 10" of jello, with a 13% heavier bullet, excellent expansion = winner.
    YMMV
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  12. #41
    Member Array Coldwarvet's Avatar
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    Just got my ProChrono Digital today

    I thought you folks might find this interesting. I just got my chrono today, and took out the six different rounds I'd acquired for some preliminary testing tonight. Results were most interesting. I fired five-shot groups from each box, and will post the average velocity from my PPK/S, along with the high and low for each round tested.
    Keep in mind the PPK/S has significantly more barrel length than the smallest .380 pistols, but a bit less than a Beretta 84, which is what I think most of the manufacturers must be using for a test gun.

    Rem. Golden Sabre 102gr JHP 840 - 858, 809

    Win. White Box 95gr FMJ 873 - 899, 846

    Fed. Hydra Shock 90gr JHP 932 - 956, 905

    Corbon 90gr JHP 996 - 985, 1008 (Best spread)

    Buffalo Bore +P 90gr Speer GD JHP - 1100 - 1069, 1131

    Speer LE 90gr GDHP 923 - 843, 963

    The Corbon was by far the most consistent, with a SD of 10 for the five rounds fired. The Buffalo Bore was definitely the hottest, but I got a stovepipe jam after the first round that I had to stop and clear. I reloaded the same two rounds in the same order and got the five round group to fire fine the second time, but my PPK/S doesn't like the serious +P rounds it seems.

    What's interesting is to compare the numbers I actually recorded with the manufacturer's claimed ballistic results. I have only a few of the manufacturer's numbers handy right now, but the trend is obvious:

    Rem. GS: claimed is 940, my avg. was 840

    Win. FMJ: claimed is 955, my avg. was 873

    Buffalo Bore 90gr JHP: claimed is 1175, my avg. was 1100

    I will eventually get around to looking up the claimed performance for the CorBon, Federal, and Speer loads, but what's obvious is that barrel length really matters. A LOT. So, if I were looking for a load to use with one of the really micro pistols, I'd be very leary of relying on the ballistics data from the manufacturers, to say the least. I didn't take time just now to look up the relative barrel lengths for a Beretta 84, a PPK/S, and a P3AT, but I have an idea they are getting shorter as you go there.

    Bottom line for me is I will load nothing less than Corbon 90gr JHPs as a defense load, and will probably load one round of Buffalo Bore at the bottom of each magazine, since I don't have worry about a double feed jam/stovepipe there.

    The Corbon also was by far the most consistently loaded of the six brands I chose, and should offer the most consistent results.

    Just my .02, your mileage may vary!

  13. #42
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    I've read some very good things about the Cor-Bon DPX all copper bullet. A site, THR - Powered by vBulletin had a thread with "John Farnam on Cor-Bon DPX ammo" in there. It went back a day or two, but they were very impressed with the penetration through leather jacket and through denim before getting into the water jugs. It, although lighter, penetrated further. It also held all together.
    Below are 3 bullets I fired out my Bersa BT380 pistol. One on the left is Federal Hyra Shock (note, the jacket came apart in the water on this one), Cor-Bon DPX, and Remington Golden Saber. The "big" bullet in the picture to the left of the expanded Hydra Shock is the .45ACP in Federal Hydra Shock configuration.



    I currenly have all the first bullets in my Bersa as Cor-Bon with the last one Remington Golden Saber.

    Too bad they don't have Black Talon ammo anymore. I thought they were the very best for small arms like the .380 and 9mm. They were also great in the .45ACP in that they prevented it from overpenetrating and exiting. They did cause bad guy to exit.
    Vern
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    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

  14. #43
    Member Array forestranger's Avatar
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    Coldwarvet, the results I got from some of your loads in p3at:

    Fed Hyd. Shock-874fps hi-907 lo- 848
    Rem GS- 787fps 806 778
    WWB fmj- 806fps 834 780

    CB DPX did 1020fps 1035 1009.

    Read some higher numbers out of lcp on Ruger forum. Hotter day, chamber, barrel dimensions?

  15. #44
    Member Array Coldwarvet's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting the data points, guys. Darth, I was extremely impressed with the CorBon 90 gr. performance. Three of the five readings were within 2 fps of each other. It's also obviously a borderline plus p load, although not as hot as the Buffalo Bores.

    Forest, thanks for confirming what I'd interpolated. Still pretty good numbers, but I think that people using those LCPs and P3ATs should recognize that, due to velocity loss from the shorter barrels, they're actually getting significantly less than 200 fp of muzzle energy delivered. That would give me pause in using these weapons in a serious defense role.

    I'm going to chrono my Smith 642 soon with several loads and see how it compares. Very interesting, but I have come out a big believer in CorBon and Buffalo Bore (if I could trust the latter to feed!).

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Mine were posted in a thread over a year ago. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...results-2.html
    I don't know if I have the pictures still or not
    The .380 round has been discussed many times previously here.
    Pics are gone but that thread has a ton of links for me to read thanks good info. Looking up the other .380 threads too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen View Post
    Pictures? No need to re-invent a wheel. Take a look at this site: terminal ballistics tests with diagrams AND pictures of resulting bullets recovered. MANY calibers besides .380.

    Your welcome.
    Thanks I am familiar with that site but none of the rounds mentioned here like the Remington Golden Saber are posted. Part of why I asked for pics here. Good site though worth looking at several times

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen View Post
    Below are 3 bullets I fired out my Bersa BT380 pistol. One on the left is Federal Hyra Shock (note, the jacket came apart in the water on this one), Cor-Bon DPX, and Remington Golden Saber. The "big" bullet in the picture to the left of the expanded Hydra Shock is the .45ACP in Federal Hydra Shock configuration.
    Thanks for the info, excellent pics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen View Post
    Too bad they don't have Black Talon ammo anymore. I thought they were the very best for small arms like the .380 and 9mm. They were also great in the .45ACP in that they prevented it from overpenetrating and exiting. They did cause bad guy to exit.
    Black Talons are now called Rangers my First Post on this thread gave my impressions of RA380T, 95gr Winchester Ranger .380 marked Law Enforcement Ammunition (check out the link they explain it more). Ammunition To Go has Rangers for most calibers including .45 and .380. I prefer Federal HST over Rangers any day. In several tests I have done and all that I have read HST consistently out performs Rangers AKA Talons in every way. Here is a good thread on Federal HST
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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