Double Tap .357 125gr. in a snubbie
This is a discussion on Double Tap .357 125gr. in a snubbie within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a .357 magnum Smith & Wesson 340 M&P that weighs around 13+ oz. I normally carry .357 Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot for ...
July 2nd, 2008 07:36 PM
Double Tap .357 125gr. in a snubbie
I have a .357 magnum Smith & Wesson 340 M&P that weighs around 13+ oz. I normally carry .357 Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot for "short barrels". I shoot well with them and don't find them offensive in so far as recoil etc.
I have fired several boxes of 158 gr. Magtech's and found them fun to shoot - but definately a step up from the Speers.
Double Tap claims 1425 fps with regular 125 gr. Gold Dots from a 1&7/8 inch stubbie. (My Speer carry rounds do a little under 1000 fps with the 135 gr.)
Energy with the Speers runs around 294 and the Double taps spec. out at around 564. That's a considerable increase in power.
Can anyone confirm the Double Tap specs. from a snubbie? Also - how was the muzzle flash that was developed? The Speers stress "low flash" powder and a near conplete burn in short barrels. I'm wondering about the Double Taps. I'd expect more flash and live with it if it wasn't prohibative to good self defense use.
Please skip (if you would) any lectures on recoil/recovery etc. with full house .357's. I like the feel of the recoil and am getting pretty good at multiple shot recovery with the Mag Tech's (at around 535#'s of energy.)
July 2nd, 2008 10:46 PM
Haven't tried any but they are the hottest I've seen advertised. Too many of em might not be good for a j frame. I chrono'd some cor bon 110gr 357 at 1500fps out of k frame-3". Primers were flat & cases were sticky to extract. Too much for old man & old gun.
July 5th, 2008 06:32 PM
Signs that ammo is too HOT???
Let me ask this, concerning the Double Tap ammo - since I have a box coming to try.
I'm not into reloading and such - so help me out.
Are there signs to look for that show that particular ammo is a little too hot for your particular gun?
I'm thinking that swollen cases, perhaps shown by them being difficult to extract after firing (or at least tighter then normal .357's), might be one sign.
I've read something about "flattened" primers. But I don't know what that looks like really or even if that would warn me.
Perhaps there are signs in or on the gun itself to look for.
Since I'm going to fire a few to see how they do, can you guys give me a few heads up's to look for.
Excuse my ignorance!
Smith and Wesson tells me that the scandium/aluminum can handle .357's on a regular basis. Double Tap tells me that the rounds are safe to use in my 340.
Still - it is HOT ammo and the last thing I want is a damaged gun in any way.
(I would like more energy than the Speer "short barrel" .357's give, even though they are considered adequate. I like the idea of my snubbie putting out the kind of speed that approaches what the .357 got it's reputation for.)
July 5th, 2008 07:39 PM
Sticky cases and flattened or cratered primers can be signs of higher than normal pressure. But could be rough chambers or soft primers. I have SW M13 and M66 357s. The M66 shows high pressure signs w/loads that don't show any problems in M13. Tighter chambers and/or tighter barrel? Hot 125 & 110 gr 357s have been known to cause wear problems w/k frames. Timing, stretching frame, barrel cone erosion or split are some. I've shot many 357s thru both w/no problems over the years including the above loads. I just don't shoot a steady diet of em. New j frame 357s may? hold up better to them but the one I have doesn't get a lot of them. Recoil and muzzle blast make followup shots hard for me and make my arthritis act up. They won't blow up your gun so try em and see if you're comfortable w/ them.
July 6th, 2008 12:16 AM
I've not chronied any Double Tap loads, including that one.
But on the boards, DT is pretty well assumed to be the real deal, and their numbers have added up to their claims for those who have done the chrony work.
I am a big fan of their 10mm stuff, and will be getting some of those 125's for my 340pd soon.
"...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."
Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.
July 9th, 2008 06:20 PM
I just shot a few dozen rounds!
I just got back from the range where I fired the majority of rounds from a box of Double Tap 125gr. ammo.
Accuracy was as good as anything else I have shot.
Blast seemed to be no more than the .357 158 gr. MagTech's.
The noise was no more than the MagTech's either. I did notice that the noise was of a different nature. I'll call it a "sharper" boom than the MagTech stuff. It was no louder, however IMO.
I noticed a residue of powder on my hand after shooting 30 rounds or so. However, I must add that I'd never shot that many .357's in a row before from my 340 with it's 1 & 7/8" barrel.
I don't believe that the recoil was greater than the MagTech's. It was just a little "different".
There was no sign or over pressure etc. such as swollen cases.
I shot some other ammo to compare it to. I started with my .38 130gr. from American Eagle. I followed with the Speer .38+p 135gr. for "short barrels". I followed those with Speer's matching .357 ammo. I followed those with the two kinds of magnums from MagTech and Double Tap.
I sot several cylinders loaded with those 5 rounds in order of expected recoil. It was as expected - except that I wouldn't say that the Double Tap recoil was much more (if at all) than the Mag Tech's recoil - as I have said.
If I'm not mistaken, the published data shows the fired rounds as follows as far as velocity goes in ascending order as expected from the cylinders full.
990 fps (all from 2" barrels)
1235 fps (from 4" barrels)
Double Tap (the 5th round in each cylinder full) claims 1600+ from 4" barrels and 1425 from 1 &7/8" barrels.
If their data is accurate, I consider the 125gr. rounds from Double Tap to be an excellent carry round for those who desire that their snubbie deliver the kind of performance that has made 125 gr. hp's legendary manstoppers when fired from a .357. I believe that the "legendary" velocities were even less than what I got from the Double Taps in a scandium snub nose.
That's 564 foot pounds of energy delivered with a "Gold Dot" hollow point bullet (argueably the best there is).
I have no chronograph so I am taking Double Tap's data at face value. Even if they fudged by 100 fps - it would still be equal to the major manufacturer's rounds that made the .357 legendary over the years.
Whether a full blown .357 is overkill or not as far as "over" penetration goes - I haven't decided. I'm thinking on it. I suppose that depends on the enviornment you find yourself in most of the time.
July 9th, 2008 07:17 PM
You could do a wetpack test and see how expansion and penetration compares. Using a 16" thick pack of just news print soaked for 24 hr. Supposed to give expansion comparative to ballistic gel(Stopping Power Forum). Penetration would be less & read somewhere to use 3/2 ratio for penetration in wetpack vs gel. I usually cover it with layer of denim or terry cloth to make sure HPs don't clog & fail to expand.
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