Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue - very interesting!!

This is a discussion on Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue - very interesting!! within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is a link I have had for a while. I have probably posted it in some of the caliber debate threads along the way, ...

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Thread: Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue - very interesting!!

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue - very interesting!!

    This is a link I have had for a while. I have probably posted it in some of the caliber debate threads along the way, but, I wanted to post it on its own for those who might enjoy the article but dont get involved in caliber war threads.

    It is very interesting but I do not intend it to start any debates. Its only the findings of one cop-turned-coroner.

    Enjoy!

    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    That is rather interesting. I was hoping for some pics though. My bad.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Been on the S&W forums for a few years. Interesting stuff for sure.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    Been on here now and again, too. The article has been taken apart as any sort of scholarly or definitive work - even if everything written in it is true (and we really don't know), it's just the observations of one guy. I've personally seen a man get shot through the center chest at muzzle-contact range by an AK, does this observation prove that the 7.62x39 round is somehow incapable of the mythical "one shot stop?"

    Take it for what it is - one guys opinion (with the factual basis uncertain). Certainly not the gospel.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I read half way through it and it's the same old thing. "It needs to begin with a 4 if I am going to carry it" but I am glad he gave the 357 credit where it is due.
    Who gives a flip about one shot stops? I am not stopping at one shot and accessing anything or anyone!! I will fire multiple shots until the threat has stopped or I'm out of ammo, hopefully the first and not the latter. I carry a G23 as primary, however I also feel well protected with a Sig P232 with BB Gold Dots. I too would prefer photos.

    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

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    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    A good read, and thank you for it!
    "Deine Papieren bitte?" or "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !"
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    Member Array detroit9mm's Avatar
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    Funny how he feels the 9mm is horribly ineffective yet he sees more victims from 9mm than any other caliber.

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I saved it for later. Thanks.
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    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    this line stands out to me in particular

    "Yeah, the Black Talons can present real problems for those of us who work in the morgue, more for the pathologists than for me. They get the ones that are fresh and recently dead. I mainly get the skeletal remains and the ones that are so decomposed that the ME can't do much with them"

    so he mostly sees skeletal remains and not the fleshy dead. so his ballistic analysis is mostly based on the bullets effect on bone matter and how many bullets were inside a dead body.

    having a lot of bullets doesn't mean it took all of them to kill the person.

    and then this one:

    "Gangbangers are usually of the previously-mentioned "spray and pray" philosophy, meaning they want something like a 9mm or .380 that they can shoot rapidly (somehow, shot placement takes a back seat to unloading the magazine as rapidly as possible for these guys)"

    so he states that most of the gunshot victims are 9mm, then says it took a lot of bullets to kill them based on how many holes they have, THEN states that gangbangers spray and pray rather than focus on few well placed shots.

    sounds to me like he just likes the .40 and .45, not that he has any real data against the 9mm
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Member Array JxMxFxPx's Avatar
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    [quote]The 9mm has a horrible reputation as a reliable manstopper[/qoute]


    I think there are some major metropolitan police departments who would tend to disagree.

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    Member Array Agamemnon's Avatar
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    Excellent read from someone who has seen thousands of bodies a year. Seems the only folks that didn't get anything from it are those who carry 9mm, but I thought he made his conclusions from solid observation and explained his opinions very clearly.

    Thanks for the link!

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    Member Array Casey's Avatar
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    A recent FBI study refutes the spray and pray thing. Seems most Bangers practice more than the police. I work as a paramedic in a very violent city and see a lot of GSWs. The predominant caliber I see used is the 9, and I can attest that in most cases they either put it in the leg, or center mass with their handguns. The AK clones and even the actual full auto version are floating around here too, and with THESE there's lots of spraying, generally into crowds of people.

    I see that the article was posted on that particular site in '06. I couldn't find the actual year of origin, but the ammo companies have made some fantastic strides in their 9mm offerings. I don't feel undergunned with a Beretta 92 at the bedside or in the truck. Then again, a .40 or .45 is not often far away.

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    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Numbers

    His numbers add up to near 3000 shootings a year. Seems like a lot, even for Atlanta....

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    Member Array DAtrigger's Avatar
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    I also think that the 9mm (Luger) should not be dismissed in any way. Even in its basic form, the 9mm is at least as powerful as a +P 38 special and the +P 9mm approaches medium-strength 357 Magnum power if you can believe the specifications. (Such as the Corbon SD09125).

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    I Take my chances with my 9mm 16 shot S&W 9Cwen it comes back with new trigger job 124gn +P gold dots MEANWHILE I"LL CARRY MY 4in 357 125gr 1450 fps 583 ft lb. whith confidence

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